In this episode, Jordan talks with Greg Lickenbrock, Senior Firearms Analyst and Technical Advisor at Everytown for Gun Safety, who has also spent years working inside the firearms industry as an editor and writer.

They unpack how the Train SMART curriculum was developed, why firearms safety education so often becomes entangled in partisan politics, and where Train SMART intentionally overlaps with, and diverges from, traditional NRA-style training. Jordan shares his firsthand experience taking the SMART Guide to Owning a Gun class, including what surprised him, what felt different, and why its focus on mental health, suicide prevention, and protecting children stood out.

The conversation expands into broader questions about distrust between gun owners and advocacy organizations, evidence-based approaches to reducing gun violence that rarely get prioritized, and whether meaningful collaboration is possible when political incentives reward conflict over results.

A candid, long-form discussion about gun safety, harm reduction, and the limits and possibilities of working across ideological lines.

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Edited by Matthew Boerger