Zen for a World on Fire: How Zen Helps Us to Wake Up, Grow Up & Rise to the Challenges of Our Time cover art

Zen for a World on Fire: How Zen Helps Us to Wake Up, Grow Up & Rise to the Challenges of Our Time

Zen for a World on Fire: How Zen Helps Us to Wake Up, Grow Up & Rise to the Challenges of Our Time

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 Ep. 232 | In this potent and profound conversation, Zen teachers, Integral Facilitators, and conflict mediators, Diane Musho Hamilton and her student and co-author Gabriel Wilson, eloquently reveal the practical benefits of a life founded on contemplative practice. What they bring home so effectively—both in this conversation and in their new book, Waking Up and Growing Up—is how much we have to gain from an interface of traditional Zen and contemporary knowledge. “Buddhist practice is the most genius way to work with human suffering,” Diane says, and grounded in awareness of the fundamental oneness is where we want to be when engaging in social or political activism, or when facing any kind of conflict. “It’s the evolution of consciousness and the attendant set of skills to support that,” she continues. We can awaken to an awareness of our true nature, and then take up the gauntlet of growing up—“straight up maturation, straight-up ego development.”In fact, what Gabe calls Diane’s “experiment” is nothing less than evolving the 2,500-year-old tradition of Zen, preserving and innovating, holding on to the wisdom, power, and grace of the tradition while bringing in the contributions of the West: psychology, shadow work, neuroscience, emotional development, and stage-appropriate interpersonal skills. Also, how to make sense of power dynamics, work with authority, and allow being pushed out of our comfort zone. A testament to Diane and Gabe’s own inner work, this groundbreaking conversation is inspiring and impactful, punctuated with deep, personal, experiential wisdom from both guests that speaks directly to how we can best wake up, grow up, and show up in this challenging world of ours. Recorded July 24, 2025.“There’s nothing like sitting with what is to prepare you to be with what is.”Topics & Time StampsIntroducing Zen teachers, authors, and Integral Facilitators, Diane Musho Hamilton & Gabriel Wilson (00:44)What drew Gabe to Zen, and what lack did he feel Waking Up and Growing Up would fill? (01:35)Evolving the Zen tradition: what do we need, particularly in western Buddhism, that we’re not finding? (05:26)Using Ken Wilber’s framework of waking up and growing up (08:50)What does “waking up” really mean? (10:02)Practice IS enlightenment: the awakened mind is only found in the here and now (12:23)There’s nothing like sitting with what is to prepare you to be with what will come (17:30)The realization that there’s no big opening to be had (23:05)What does “growing up” mean? (24:07)Providing students with interpersonal skills to accommodate their evolving levels of development (27:00)Writing for the younger generations: how to make sense of power dynamics, work with authority & allow being pushed out of your comfort zone (31:15)The wisdom of learning from those who have gone before us (34:49)Growing the capacity to deal with intensity in the moment (38:59)The example of John Lewis: being inclusive of the ego but not limited by it (44:29)How do we respond to what’s happening without imagining it shouldn’t be happening? (49:15) Holding the vision that we are fundamentally one when we engage in social activism (51:18)Be wary of using aggression in the name of love (54:11)Within the container of conventional religious traditions, developmental tasks are different for each stage (59:40)The teacher/student relationship cuts both ways (01:07:21)Preserving and evolving the Zen tradition for today’s world (01:08:55) Buddhist practice is the most genius way to work with human suffering (01:13:40)Looking to the future: are we innovating too much? (01:16:24)A lot of technology is racing us to the bottom of our brainstem; where we put our attention is important (01:20:32)Resources & ReferencesDiane Musho Hamilton, co-founder of Two Arrows Zen CenterGabriel Wilson, founder of Freedom & FairnessDiane Hamilton & Gabriel Wilson, Waking Up and Growing Up: Spiritual Cross-Training for an Evolving WorldDiane Hamilton, The Zen of You and Me: A Guide to Getting Along with Just About EveryoneDiane Hamilton, Gabriel Wilson & Kimberly Loh, Compassionate Conversations: How to Speak and Listen from the HeartKen Wilber, Welcome to the Integral Approach (Integral Life website)Ken Wilber, Finding Radical Wholeness (where Ken expounds his “waking up, growing up, cleaning up, showing up” modelDeep Transformation’s A. H. Almaas Wisdom SeriesDōgen Zenji, “Practice is enlightenment” (from the Fukan zazengi)Joanna Macy (1929-2025), environmental activist, author, and scholar of Buddhism, general systems theory & deep ecologySam Harris, philosopher, neuroscientist, author & podcast hostJohn Lewis interview with On Being’s Krista Tippett: Love in Action What is Buddha? Zen koan (case 21) in The Gateless Gate: Classic Book of Zen KoansThe Hidden Lamp: Stories from Twenty-Five Centuries of Awakened Women, edited by Zenshin Florence Caplow, Reigetsu Susan MoonTristan Harris, ...
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