• [#15] Juliet Schor: The Evidence for the 4-Day Workweek
    Nov 26 2025
    Economist and sociologist Dr. Juliet Schor has spent decades studying working time, overwork, consumer culture, and now the global movement toward shorter workweeks. In this conversation, we unpack what the data actually shows about four-day weeks: productivity, well-being, turnover, carbon emissions, and the business case for working less.Juliet shares stories from companies and public organizations around the world—from advertising agencies and restaurants to nurses, startups, and local governments, showing how shorter hours can reduce burnout, improve quality, and save money even when output doesn’t “go up.” She also explains why shorter hours act as a forcing function for innovation, how they enable lower-carbon lifestyles, and why we’ve been stuck at a five-day week for 85 years.We connect the research to our nine-year experiment with a 5-hour workday, and explore what might be possible with a future 4-day, reduced-hour workweek.Why listenLearn what the research actually says about four-day workweeks—beyond hype, headlines, and opinions.Hear how companies in high-stress sectors like healthcare, restaurants, and advertising are using shorter hours to cut burnout, improve quality, and reduce turnover.Understand the difference between 100-80-100 and 100-80-80 models—and why not every success story is about “doing more with less.”See how shorter workweeks can reduce carbon emissions and enable more sustainable lifestyles through behavior change, not just fewer commutes.Discover why shorter hours act as a forcing mechanism that breaks Parkinson’s Law and drives better processes, documentation, and focus.Get ideas for how employees, managers, and leaders can start the conversation about work-time reduction inside their own organizations.Highlights & timestamps 00:17 – Welcome to Five Hour FormulaAlex frames the five-hour workday experiment and introduces Juliet as a leading researcher on shorter workweeks.00:33 – Who is Dr. Juliet Schor?Juliet’s background as an economist/sociologist, The Overworked American, and her latest book Four Days a Week.02:21 – Origin storyGrowing up in coal country, her father’s work with mine workers, and how she became interested in working time.03:28 – From surveys to global trialsEarly surveys showing huge appetite for a four-day week, the long “quiet period,” and how Joe O’Connor and Four Day Week Global pulled her into large-scale trials during and after the pandemic.05:08 – Why shorter hours once seemed like a luxuryInequality, wage stagnation, and economic distress pushed shorter workweeks off the agenda—until COVID forced a rethink of how and why we work.08:07 – Shorter workweeks, climate & carbonWhat the data actually shows on emissions: modest commuting gains, income as a big driver of carbon, and why countries that choose more free time over more output see larger climate benefits.11:01 – Time, money & behavior changeShorter hours as an “enabling condition” for more sustainable lifestyles and more intentional choices—echoed by Alex’s experience with the 5-hour day.12:30 – 5-hour days vs 4-day weeksComparing Alex’s 25-hour workweek with the 32-hour model in the trials, and how both create space for better lives and lower-carbon habits.15:10 – 100-80-100 vs 100-80-80Why some organizations maintain output (100-80-100) while others accept less output (100-80-80) but win through lower turnover, better outcomes, and reduced hiring costs—especially in healthcare, restaurants, and nonprofits.17:05 – Case studies across sectorsNurses with better patient outcomes, chefs who finally stay, and an ad agency slashing 30–40% turnover while clients love the stability.22:10 – A UK council saves ~£750kHow South Cambridgeshire Council used a four-day week to attract talent, reduce temp staff and bonuses, still save money, and weather political backlash.25:29 – Speed-up or working smarter?Research showing real work reorganization and self-reported gains in competence and productivity—with little evidence of simple speed-up.26:05 – What actually changes inside companiesIn white-collar firms: fewer/better meetings and more focus time.In breweries, restaurants, and factories: staffing changes, time-and-motion improvements, and burnout reduction.28:32 – Turnover, meetings, and hidden inefficienciesWhy even already-efficient teams gain massively from better retention, while many companies still have huge upside in cutting meeting overload and distraction.30:00 – A startup “saved” by the four-day weekA satellite internet startup handles a huge new contract without burning out the team—thanks to the four-day week, better documentation, and long-delayed process improvements.33:38 – The four-day week as a forcing functionShorter hours act as a constraint that forces innovation, better processes, documentation, and smarter use of tech and AI.34:13 – Parkinson’s Law & 85 years at 40 hoursHow being stuck ...
    Show More Show Less
    49 mins
  • [#14] Alex Pang: Work Less, Rest More - Achieve World-Class Results
    Nov 11 2025
    Futurist and author Alex Soojung-Kim Pang joins Alex Gafford to unpack why the most productive people and teams don’t work more, they work better. We dive into Pang’s trilogy (The Distraction Addiction, Rest, Shorter), the research behind 4–5 hours of daily deep work, and how design thinking turns shorter-hours experiments into durable operating systems. We also explore AI’s role, global adoption trends, and practical steps any leader can take this quarter.Why listenLearn the science behind the “~4 hours of deep work” ceiling — and how elite performers pair it with deliberate rest.See how shorter-hours experiments solve real problems: retention, burnout, recruiting, founder sanity.Steal the cadence: protected focus blocks → deliberate breaks → lighter admin.Get a realistic view of AI: tool for climbing the value chain vs. blunt headcount cuts.Walk away with a 6-step playbook to pilot a shorter week or shorter day.Highlights & timestamps00:00 – Welcome & Origin StoryHow Blue Street and Pang first connected; pre-pandemic “are we crazy?” moments and why that skepticism faded.01:13 – Not Just TechShorter profiled 100+ companies across law, manufacturing, professional services — proof the movement isn’t lifestyle-only.04:05 – Real Business DriversRetention and recruiting pressure → time as a benefit; burnout in high-pressure industries.06:32 – Asia’s Pushback on OverworkJapan/Korea examples; cultural headwinds and 1,000-person organizations experimenting with reduced hours.09:01 – Keep It an ExperimentWhy the model works best as a continuing experiment (not an entitlement) — and how that mindset fuels improvement.10:00 – From Rest to CultureBlue Street’s book-club takeaways → company rituals: 90-minute deep-work sprints followed by devices-down walks.14:15 – The Trilogy’s ArcThe Distraction Addiction (attention design) → Rest (recovery for brilliance) → Shorter (scaling it organization-wide).18:25 – Training AnalogyPerformance rises when recovery rises; why sleep quality and mid-day movement aren’t “nice-to-haves”.20:41 – The “Four Hours” ChapterDarwin, Dickens, scientists, composers: repeated pattern of 4–5 hrs/day of truly deep work.21:41 – Reframing the 10,000-Hour RuleEricsson’s data: ~4 hrs/day of deliberate practice plus ~12,500 hrs deliberate rest and ~30,000 hrs sleep over a decade.24:52 – Layering Deep Work + Deliberate RestWalks and active breaks amplify problem-solving via the default mode network.32:01 – Design Thinking for Work-Time ReductionHow Pang structures Shorter: iterate, test, codify — and how leaders can apply it personally and organizationally.38:59 – Future of Work & AIAI enables time dividends if implemented by workers to climb the value chain; beware “consultant-driven” headcount cuts.44:06 – Scale & AdoptionPang now sees ~1,000+ orgs operating with reduced hours at same pay across sizes and sectors.45:21 – Big-Company PatternsCase approach: local pilots (e.g., stores/departments), heavy measurement, de-risk, then scale.46:32 – Four-Day vs. Shorter DaysWhy 4DWs sell easily, but 5–6 hour days better fit school schedules and cognitive ceilings; both models work.50:40 – What Pang’s Building NowConsulting with nonprofits; free open-access program to help teams design shorter-hours trials.51:27 – Where to StartAccess Pang’s open course and reach out for organizational design support (links in Resources).The playbook (quick start)Protect Deep Work (90 mins x 2–3/day): No Slack, phones, or meetings. Door-closed norms apply to everyone, senior leaders included.Layer Deliberate Rest: After each sprint, 10–20 minutes of devices-down walking, light movement, or nature.Right-size Meetings: Default 15 minutes. Require purpose + pre-read. End early on principle.Design Thinking Cadence: Pick a team → define constraints → run a 6–12 week pilot → measure output/quality/CSAT → codify → expand.Make It an Experiment, Always: Treat reduced hours as earned via outcomes; iterate policies quarterly.Aim AI at the Busy Work: Have workers choose where AI removes drudgery so they can spend more time on high-value work and bank some of the time as free time.Best Quotes from Alex Pang:“The only bad shorter workweek is the one you don’t implement.” “Top performers don’t just practice more — they rest more and sleep better.”“Keep it an experiment — that’s how you prevent entitlement and keep improving.”“AI can enable a four-day week — but only if we choose to spend the time dividend well.”Resources & mentionsBooks by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang: Shorter, Rest, The Distraction Addiction.Research: Anders Ericsson (deliberate practice); reinterpreting the “10,000 hours” rule.Case contexts: Netherlands/Nordics (shorter days), Japan/Korea moves, Medibank pilots, Iceland & UAE public-sector shifts.Blue Street Capital practices: 90-minute deep-work sprints + devices-down ...
    Show More Show Less
    55 mins
  • [#13] Work School Hours: The Movement to Rebuild Work Around Life
    Oct 22 2025

    Guest: Dr. Ellen Joan Ford, Author of #WorkSchoolHours, TEDx Speaker, and Leadership Consultant

    Episode Summary


    In this episode, Alex Gafford talks with Dr. Ellen Joan Ford, former New Zealand Army Officer, researcher, and author of #WorkSchoolHours. Together they unpack how the modern 9–5 is failing working parents and what it looks like to redesign work around real life.

    Dr. Ford shares the three core principles behind the Work School Hours movement, valuing life outside work, focusing on outputs (not hours), and enabling flexibility, and how these ideas benefit both families and businesses.

    From military leadership lessons in Antarctica to corporate case studies, this conversation explores the future of work for parents, leaders, and anyone who believes there’s a better way to work and live.

    Key Themes & Ideas


    1. Why the 9–5 Is Broken for Parents

    • The mismatch between school schedules and work hours creates impossible pressure for working families.
    • Most parents fall into one of three categories: forced out, burned out, or underpaid for part-time overload.
    • Dr. Ford’s research reveals that this “societal-wide gaslighting” punishes efficiency and it’s time to change that.

    2. The Fourth Option: Work School Hours

    • A model built on outputs, not hours.
    • Flexible, high-trust work cultures boost both productivity and retention.
    • Why guilt-free parenting and high performance are not mutually exclusive.


    3. Leadership Lessons from the Military

    • How an Antarctic mission taught Ellen the power of focusing on outcomes over hours.
    • Why output-based work makes teams more autonomous, motivated, and innovative.


    4. Flexibility Beyond the Office

    • Real-world examples of flexibility in healthcare, construction, farming, and emergency services.
    • How even shift-based industries can offer family-aligned schedules with creativity and collaboration.

    5. Why This Makes Business Sense

    • The data: flexible work drives higher retention, better recruiting, and improved well-being, all leading to stronger performance.
    • Happy people simply do better work.

    Takeaways

    • The Work School Hours movement isn’t just about parents, it’s about designing work for real life.
    • Time is our most valuable asset, and flexibility is the modern workforce’s ultimate benefit.
    • When people can thrive at home, they perform better at work.

    Resources & Links

    • Website (Book & TEDx Talk): ellenjoanford.com
    • Connect with Dr. Ford: LinkedIn – Dr. Ellen Joan Ford


    Connect with Alex: LinkedIn - Alex Gafford

    • Listen to all episodes of The 5-Hour Formula Podcast


    Next Episode

    Next up in this new series of conversations with experts reimagining work around the world, Alex Pang joins the show.
    He’s the author of The Distraction Addiction, Rest, and Shorter, and one of the leading voices in the global movement to work less and live better.
    In this all-time classic conversation, we dive into the science of rest, the 4-day week revolution, and how to design a workday that maximizes creativity, focus, and fulfillment.

    Show More Show Less
    34 mins
  • [#12] Design Your Intentional Day
    Oct 9 2025

    If I asked you to envision your perfect day — one that leaves you energized, satisfied, and fulfilled — what would it look like? Not a vacation or a lucky break, but a normal day. That’s the question at the heart of this episode.

    Inspired by Heroic’s Brian Johnson and his idea of the Masterpiece Day (itself borrowed from legendary coach John Wooden), Alex shows how to design an intentional day that combines art, structure, and experimentation. This episode ties together all the big ideas from the 5-Hour Formula series — from time and vision to routines, habits, prioritization, productivity, and energy.

    You’ll learn how to sketch your ideal day, build the rhythms that make it possible, and track your progress so you can live more days with intention — and fewer by default.

    What You’ll Learn in This Episode

    • Why your intentional day is an experiment, not perfection.
    • The “art” of sketching your Masterpiece Day (and how Alex designs his).
    • How structure turns your ideal day into reality:
      • Morning and evening routines (the bookends).
      • Habit design that makes willpower almost irrelevant.
      • Finding your ONE Thing with the 80/20 rule.
      • Using the Productivity Pyramid to protect deep work and eliminate waste.
      • Energy management as the ultimate multiplier.
    • The role of tracking: how small daily scores improve habits, energy, and results.
    • Why John Wooden focused on details — and how that applies to your day.

    Today’s Experiment: Track Your Intentional Day

    For this week’s experiment, start tracking just one thing from four categories. Keep it simple, do it for seven days, and treat it like a checklist:

    1. Core Work Activity — Pick the most important, trackable part of your work.
      • Example: client calls, writing sessions, or deliverables completed.
    2. Key Energy Protocol — Choose one driver of your energy.
      • Example: 7+ hours of sleep, morning walk, or hydration goal.
    3. Habit Tracking — Reinforce one small, repeatable behavior.
      • Example: “When I sit down at my desk, I’ll write for 10 minutes.”
    4. Free Time Objective — Pick something you’ve said you don’t have time for.
      • Example: practice Spanish for 10 minutes after dinner, or play catch with your kids.

    Do this for a week. Next week, add one or two more. Over time, your tracker becomes a blueprint for your intentional day.


    Key Takeaway

    When you track your day, you live it with intention. And when you stack enough intentional days together, you begin to see your masterpiece take shape.

    As John Wooden said: “Make each day your masterpiece.”

    Example: Alex’s Intentional Day Tracker

    • Work KPIs → Client meetings requested: 15 / Booked: 3
    • Energy Protocols (1–10) → Sleep: 9 | Move: 10 | Eat: 7
    • Habit → “When I sit at my desk, I write for 10 minutes.” → Yes
    • Fun → Spanish practice for 10 minutes after dinner → Yes

    References & Resources

    • Brian Johnson — Heroic (Masterpiece Day concept)
    • John Wooden — Make Today a Masterpiece mantra
    • James Clear — Atomic Habits (habit design)
    • Gary Keller — The ONE Thing (80/20 principle)
    • Alex Pang — Rest and Shorter
    • Matthew Walker — Why We Sleep
    • Jim Loehr & Tony Schwartz — The Power of Full Engagement

    Connect with Alex

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-gafford-09b2b87/
    • Podcast: 5-HourFormula.com
    Show More Show Less
    21 mins
  • [#11] Energy Is the Multiplier: How to Get 8 Hours of Work Done in 5
    Aug 28 2025

    Managing time is important, but managing energy is the multiplier. In this episode, Alex explains why your physiology drives your psychology, and how energy fundamentals like sleep, diet, and movement are the foundation for focus. He also breaks down the recovery protocols that sustain performance inside a 5-Hour Workday.

    This isn’t just theory, it’s a playbook for becoming a cognitive athlete. You’ll learn how to generate, protect, and recover your energy so you can deliver eight hours of output in just five.

    What You’ll Learn in This Episode

    • Why energy management > time management in a shorter workday.
    • The big three energy fundamentals — sleep, diet, and exercise — and how to personalize them.
    • How movement fuels creativity and why sitting all day + one gym session mimics the worst of spaceflight (NASA research).
    • The role of ultradian rhythms and why breaks must be restorative, not just time away.
    • Why nature is the ultimate recovery tool (Marc Berman’s research).
    • The role of the Default Mode Network in creativity and problem-solving.
    • How Alex “trains for recovery” the same way he trains for Spartan races.

    Today’s Experiments

    Choose one experiment this week (or both, if you’re ambitious):

    1. The Wind-Down Alarm (Sleep)

    • Set an alarm one hour before bed.
    • Use it as your cue to start winding down: dim lights, shut screens, stretch, or read.
    • Track your next-day focus and energy. Bonus: use a sleep tracker.

    2. The Nature Break (Recovery)

    • After a 90-minute work block, take a 20-minute walk in nature.
    • No phone. No talking. Just notice your surroundings.
    • Rate your focus before and after.

    Key Takeaway

    Time management matters. But energy is the multiplier.
    Your physiology drives your psychology — and how you manage your energy determines your mood, creativity, decision-making, and ultimately the quality of your work.

    Pick one fundamental — sleep, diet, exercise, or recovery — and start experimenting. That’s how you train like a cognitive athlete and get more done in less time.

    References & Resources

    • Matthew Walker — Why We Sleep
    • Jim Loehr & Tony Schwartz — The Power of Full Engagement
    • John Ratey — Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain
    • Marc Berman — Nature and the Mind (attention restoration research)
    • Alex Pang — Rest and Shorter
    • Joan Vernikos — Sitting Kills, Moving Heals
    • Tom Rath — Eat Move Sleep

    Connect with Alex

    • LinkedIn: Linkedin.com/Alex-Gafford
    • Website: 5-HourFormula.com
    • Podcast: The 5-Hour Formula (Apple, Spotify, etc.)

    Coming Next Week

    In the next episode, we’ll zoom out from energy and recovery and look at your ideal day and how to track it. This session will pull together everything we’ve covered so far: time, goals, routines, habits, prioritization, productivity and energy. Think of it as the blueprint for bringing all the fundamentals into daily life.

    Show More Show Less
    19 mins
  • [#10] Rethinking Meetings: How to Reclaim Your Focus and Time
    Aug 7 2025


    Meetings are the biggest time sink in most work calendars—yet very few of them actually move the needle. In this final episode of the Productivity Pyramid series, we tackle the hidden cost of meeting overload and explore how to reclaim your time without sacrificing collaboration.


    In This Episode:

    If you’ve ever felt stuck in back-to-back meetings wondering “When am I supposed to do my actual work?”, you’re not alone.

    This episode explores:

    • Why meetings are often the final barrier to a more productive workday
    • Real-world stories and stats that expose the hidden toll of unproductive meetings
    • The C.R.I.S.P. framework for running meetings that are Clear, Relevant, Inclusive, Smaller, and well Paced
    • A bonus look at how Microsoft Japan boosted productivity by 40%—just by rethinking meetings
    • A simple experiment (plus a bonus!) to help you take back control of your calendar


    Featured Framework: C.R.I.S.P.

    A practical acronym to redesign your meetings:

    • Clear – Purpose, agenda, and takeaways are defined
    • Relevant – Only the right people attend, and only when necessary
    • Inclusive – Rotate roles and invite quiet voices to contribute
    • Smaller – Keep group size tight and meaningful
    • Pacing – Shorten meetings and build in breaks to avoid burnout

    This Week’s Experiments:

    Part 1: Audit Your Meetings

    • Look at your calendar from the past month
    • Categorize meetings: Valuable, Wasteful, Unclear
    • How many had a shared agenda? How many did you actively participate in?

    Part 2: Reclaim Your Time

    • Ask to skip or reduce a recurring meeting
    • Send a kind message asking for an agenda if a meeting feels unclear
    • If you lead meetings: run one using the CRISP method

    Try these experiments for 1–2 weeks and watch your calendar become leaner, sharper, and more energizing.

    Mentioned in This Episode:

    • 4 Days a Week and The Overworked American by Juliet Schor
    • Microsoft Japan’s 4-day workweek experiment
    • EOS Traction / Level 10 Meetings (L10 format)
    • Atlassian’s study on meeting engagement
    • Microsoft’s Human Factors Lab Study of back to back meetings


    Connect with Alex:

    Tried the time block experiment? Hit a flow state?

    DM Alex on LinkedIn—he’d love to hear what changed for you.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-gafford-09b2b87/


    Stay Tuned:

    Next episode: Energy Management (more important than time management) how managing our energy by the way we sleep, eat, move and rest determines the quality of our work, ability to focus and make decisions. A key idea in the shorter workday.

    Show More Show Less
    19 mins
  • [#09] Multitasking Is Killing Your Focus - Try This Instead
    Jun 17 2025

    What if the most powerful productivity hack wasn’t doing more—it was protecting time for what matters most?

    In this episode, Alex breaks down Time Blocking, the #1 tool that helped his team eliminate distractions, reduce reactivity, and consistently finish high-value work—faster.


    You’ll learn how to:

    • Shift from reactive mode to deep, focused execution
    • Use time blocks for strategy, writing, creative work—even repetitive tasks
    • Protect your most valuable hours using 4 powerful tactics
    • Reduce attention residue and multitasking fatigue
    • Avoid the biggest mistake people make with time blocking (and how to fix it)

    You’ll also hear insights from a recent beta group who ran this experiment and saw immediate improvements in both productivity and measurable KPIs.

    This Episode's Experiment:

    The Time Blocking Challenge

    Use this 3-step system to build and protect one high-value time block each day:

    Choose one high-value task (not just urgent)
    Batch similar work to avoid switching
    Protect your time using these 4 strategies:

    • Build a Bunker
    • Store Provisions
    • Sweep for Mines
    • Enlist Support

    Then track your results:

    • Did you accomplish more in less time?
    • Was the quality of your work better?
    • How did it feel to work with that level of clarity and focus?

    Try it for one week—and see what happens.

    Resources Mentioned:


    The ONE Thing by Gary Keller & Jay Papasan

    • Deep Work by Cal Newport
    • UC Irvine research on attention residue (Gloria Mark)
    • Tim Ferriss on 2–5 hour creative blocks
    • Ultradian rhythm research on focus cycles
    • Episode#6 : Work Less, Achieve More—The Ultimate Routine Shift (Click link to listen)

    Connect with Alex:
    Tried the time block experiment? Hit a flow state?
    DM Alex on LinkedIn—he’d love to hear what changed for you.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-gafford-09b2b87/

    Stay Tuned:
    Next episode: The final proactive strategy in the productivity pyramid -Optimizing Meetings—how to reduce, improve, and restructure your calendar to make space for real, focused work.

    Show More Show Less
    17 mins
  • [#08] The Productivity Pyramid: Free Up Time, Get More Done
    May 22 2025

    What if you could work fewer hours—and actually get more done? In this episode, Alex introduces the Productivity Pyramid, the framework behind the 5-hour workday that helped his company increase productivity, revenue and retention all while working less.

    You’ll learn how to:

    • Eliminate the most common time wasters that secretly drain your workday
    • Understand the cognitive cost of distractions and multitasking
    • Shift from a “busy” mindset to a results-driven work culture
    • Use the One-Day Time Audit, a simple experiment that reveals exactly where your time is going

    Whether you're working 8 hours, 10, or even 12+ hours a day, this episode will help you reframe how you think about productivity—and give you the tools to reclaim your focus, your time, and your energy.


    Topics Covered:

    • The surprising origin of the 5-hour workday
    • The three levels of the Productivity Pyramid
    • Time Wasters vs. Distractions: What’s the difference?
    • Why attention residue and decision fatigue hurt your performance
    • The myth of multitasking—and why it wastes 28% of your workday
    • 3 key strategies that transformed Alex's work culture
    • How to run the One-Day Time Audit to reveal your biggest productivity leaks


    This Episode's Experiment:

    The One-Day Time Audit
    Track your time in 15-minute blocks for a full workday using 3 columns:
    Activity – What you did
    Distractions – What pulled your focus
    Observations – What stood out

    Run the audit, review your patterns, and see what happens when you become truly aware of how you’re spending your time.

    Resources Mentioned:

    • Peter Drucker’s The Effective Executive
    • The One Thing by Gary Keller
    • Stanford University Productivity Study
    • Harvard Business Review study on task prioritization
    • UC Irvine research on attention recovery time


    Connect with Alex:

    Have a breakthrough from the time audit? Found your biggest time waster?
    DM Alex on LinkedIn — he’d love to hear how this experiment changes the way you work.
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-gafford-09b2b87/

    Stay Tuned:

    Next episode: Alex dives into the top layer of the Productivity Pyramid—Proactive Strategies, including time blocking, AM/PM routines, and how to protect your energy for deep, focused work.

    Show More Show Less
    25 mins