Rob Keller, Associate General Counsel at Cisco, joins Sara Morgan, CRO at Axiom and host of today's Axiom Insights show, to make a counterintuitive case: Data governance is legally more significant than AI itself.

Overseeing Cisco's product legal for $24B in annual revenue, Rob explains why GCs should prioritize overlapping EU regulations without stalling launches, why legal should be involved in product development years earlier, what good AI vendor diligence looks like, and two near-term items GCs should ensure they're not missing: California AB 2013 and EU high-risk AI use case directives, due this summer.

Cisco's legal department exceeds 500 professionals and fields dedicated AI governance and government compliance teams—a scale that's clearly pushing the upper-end of in-house legal functions. For leaner legal departments navigating the same regulatory wave, Rob recommends leaning on outside expertise and scaling up through partner resources for high-volume compliance work: contract review, repapering, and policy updates. Today's episode also addresses how geopolitical instability is reshaping data sovereignty strategy globally.

Show Panelists

• Rob Keller, Senior Director of Legal and Associate General Counsel, Cisco
• Sara Morgan, Chief Revenue Officer, Axiom

Key Topics

1. Why data governance is more legally significant than AI, despite all the AI noise
2. How to sequence EU regulatory compliance without stalling product launches
3. Why legal must enter product development years before launch, not at the 11th hour
4. What GCs should demand in AI vendor contracts to protect data and mitigate training risk
5. How geopolitical instability is forcing a rethink of data sovereignty and cloud strategy
6. The near-term regulations GCs are underestimating when compliance is due, and how to get ready

Episode Resources

• Visit Cisco's website (https://www.cisco.com)
• Learn more about Technology & AI at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/technology-ai)
• Learn more about Data Privacy & Cybersecurity at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/data-privacy-cybersecurity)
• Learn more about Regulatory & Compliance at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/regulatory-compliance)
• Learn more about Axiom Tech+Talent (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent)
• Visit AxiomLaw.com (https://www.axiomlaw.com)
• Subscribe to the Axiom Insights Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058)

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of Rob Keller in his personal capacity and do not represent or reflect the views, positions, or official statements of Cisco Systems, Inc. or any of its affiliates.

DISCLAIMER: Axiom is a provider of legal talent and is not a law firm, and does not provide legal advice. The information contained in these videos is merely legal information, not advice. Our clients' legal teams supervise the legal work of the Axiom lawyer. Viewing this video does not create an attorney/client relationship.

Richard Susskind, world-renowned author of "How to Think About AI," joins Axiom's Daniel Hayter and CJ Saretto for a lively discussion on how AGI will shape the future of lawyers and legal work. Susskind argues GCs must run short-term efficiency programs while building parallel teams planning for the 2030s—when AI moves legal expertise inside the product, not the department, and law firms' clients become the competition. His call to action: Stop automating existing work; build systems that eliminate the need for it.

Susskind draws on 45 years in AI and research across eight professions to frame legal as among the most technology-resistant fields and the most exposed. He introduces "incremental transformation" as a planning framework, previews compliance becoming embedded in operational systems, and offers a practical starting point: mandate daily AI use before investing in formal pilots; lean in.

• Richard Susskind, Author, Speaker & Independent Adviser; President, Society for Computers and Law; Professor, Oxford University and Strathclyde University
• Daniel Hayter, Managing Director & VP of Europe, Axiom
• CJ Saretto, Chief Technology Officer, Axiom

1. Why GCs should plan for AGI now—even if its arrival remains uncertain
2. How short-term AI efficiency gains differ fundamentally from 2030s legal transformation
3. What "preventative lawyering" means and why in-house teams should build toward it
4. Why in-house legal departments, not law firms, are leading AI adoption today
5. How GCs can assess whether a law firm's AI commitment is genuine or just PR
6. When human supervision of AI systems may no longer make sense for legal work

Episode Resources

• Richard Susskind's website (https://www.susskind.com)
• Richard Susskind's latest book: How to Think About AI: A Guide for the Perplexed (https://tinyurl.com/26jcj98a)
• Learn more about Technology & AI at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/technology-ai)
• Learn more about Data Privacy & Cybersecurity at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/data-privacy-cybersecurity)
• Learn more about Regulatory & Compliance at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/regulatory-compliance)
• Learn more about Legal Operations at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/legal-operations-support)
• Learn more about Axiom Tech+Talent (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent)
• Visit AxiomLaw.com (https://www.axiomlaw.com)
• Subscribe to the Axiom Insights Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058)

DISCLAIMER: Axiom is a provider of legal talent and is not a law firm, and does not provide legal advice. The information contained in these videos is merely legal information, not advice. Our clients' legal teams supervise the legal work of the Axiom lawyer. Viewing this video does not create an attorney/client relationship.

Join CJ Saretto as he corrals Peter Duffy of Titans Legal, Alex Fortescue-Webb of Legora, and Chris Frickland of Axiom for an inside look at running successful AI pilots in legal organizations. After helping Axiom test dozens of tools and compress months of contract review work into days, this group of legal AI experts unlocked the secret to achieving 10x efficiency gains that few in-house teams know.

In today's episode, learn why 14-day trials doom AI adoption before it starts, why training your AI on thousands of past contracts degrades does the exact opposite of what lawyers expect it to do (get smarter; but no, it gets dumber), and how focusing on one specific use case beats trying to solve everything at once.

The panel shares hard-won insights from their innovative structured 8-week pilot program, including why dummy data kills engagement, how vendor engagement and support makes or breaks adoption, and why it's crucial to give your lawyers 3-6 weeks to build new habits around AI tools.

Whether you're a GC evaluating generative AI tools, a legal ops leader running pilots, or a law firm partner wondering about how to measure ROI, this conversation offers field-tested strategies for what drives AI adoption in legal settings vs. expensive experimentation.

• Host: CJ Saretto, Chief Technology Officer, Axiom
• Peter Duffy, CEO and Co-founder, Titans Legal
• Alex Fortescue-Webb, Global Head of Engineering, Legora
• Chris Frickland, Director of AI, Axiom

1. Pilot Duration and Structure
2. Training and Education Approaches
3. Tool Selection Criteria
4. Use Case Identification
5. Adoption Challenges and Support
6. Future Impact on Legal Work
7. Technology Market Assessment
8. Specific Tool Implementation
9. Measuring Success and Outcomes
10. Real-World Results and Efficiency Gains
11. Organizational Rollout Strategy
12. Client Perspectives and Demands

Episode Resources

• DraftPilot's website (https://draftpilot.ai)
• Legora's website (https://legora.ai)
• Titans Legal's website (https://www.titans.legal/team)
• Learn more about Axiom Tech+Talent (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent)
• Visit AxiomLaw.com (https://www.axiomlaw.com)
• Subscribe to the Axiom Insights Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058)

DISCLAIMER: Axiom is a provider of legal talent and is not a law firm, and does not provide legal advice. The information contained in these videos is merely legal information, not advice. Our clients' legal teams supervise the legal work of the Axiom lawyer. Viewing this video does not create an attorney/client relationship.