Jim “JB” Bell shares his story from inside one of the Air Force’s most secret Cold War programs, Project Constant Peg.

In this episode, Host Rick Crandall talks with Jim, a retired crew chief of the legendary 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron, about what it took to keep MiG fighters flying in the Nevada desert. From maintaining MiG-17s, MiG-21s, and MiG-23s at Tonopah Test Range to flying on unmarked C-5s into China and bringing home F-7 fighters, Bell offers a rare perspective on one of the most classified adversary air programs in U.S. Air Force history. This one is going to be cool!

🎧 What you’ll hear:

• How Bell got recruited into Constant Peg: From a chance meeting in a bar at Nellis to joining the secretive 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron
• From F-4 Phantom to MiGs: Why working on Soviet fighters was completely different from traditional Air Force maintenance
• What Constant Peg was built to solve: How Vietnam exposed the need for American pilots to train against real adversary aircraft
• Learning to fix MiGs with no manuals: Trial and error, machine shops, scrounging parts, and building solutions from scratch
• MiG-21 vs. MiG-23: Why the MiG-21 was reliable and rugged while the MiG-23 became a constant maintenance challenge
• The crew chief mindset: What it meant to fully “own” an aircraft and why trust between pilots and maintainers mattered
• China missions and unmarked C-5s: Traveling to Beijing in civilian clothes to recover Chinese-built F-7 fighters for the program
• Life at Area 52: Working inside Tonopah Test Range alongside the early stealth programs and living inside a world of total secrecy
• How Constant Peg changed air combat: Why Bell believes the program saved lives and gave American pilots a critical edge
• The end of the program—and why it still matters: Why Constant Peg ended and why Bell believes a modern version should still exist today

Learn More:

• Read the full show notes on the Wings Over the Rockies website
• Donate to Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum
• Subscribe and leave a review to support the show

This episode is supported in part by United Airlines.

Major General John Barry shares his story of leadership through some of the most consequential moments in modern aerospace and national security history.

In this episode, Host Rick Crandall talks with John Barry, a fighter pilot, combat leader, former NASA official, and retired U.S. Air Force Major General. From Cold War alert missions in the F-4 Phantom to command at Luke Air Force Base, from surviving the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon to helping investigate the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, Barry reflects on a career shaped by what he calls “windows in history.” This one is going to be cool!

🎧 What you’ll hear:

• From the Bronx to the Air Force Academy: The unexpected path that launched Barry’s career
• The F-4 Phantom and Cold War Europe: Going from dead asleep to airborne in five minutes while sitting nuclear alert
• A lesson in restraint: The near-shootdown that shaped how he identified targets in combat
• Nellis, Red Flag, and flying against MiGs: How realism in training changed the fight
• NASA and Challenger: What he learned watching an organization in crisis
• Command in Turkey: Rebuilding trust after tragedy while flying combat missions over Iraq
• Luke Air Force Base: Leading the largest fighter wing in the world and confronting dangerous F-16 engine failures
• Leadership in practice: Why “make it better than you found it” became his guiding principle
• Inside the Pentagon on 9/11: Evacuation, shock, and leadership in the immediate aftermath
• Investigating Columbia: The technical failure, the cultural breakdowns, and the “echoes of Challenger”

Key takeaway:
Preparation, humility, accountability, and the willingness to learn from history are what allow leaders and institutions to respond when the stakes are highest.

Learn More:

• Read the full show notes on the Wings Over the Rockies website
• Donate to Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum
• Subscribe and leave a review to support the show

This episode is supported in part by United Airlines.

Retired Col. Thomas Kirk shares his story of surviving solitary confinement for two years as a prisoner of war at the “Hanoi Hilton."

In this episode, Host Rick Crandall talks with Tom, a fighter pilot, squadron commander, and Vietnam War POW. From one of the most intense air-combat battlefields in history to the harrowing story that followed, Kirk explores what it took to persevere through the unthinkable. There is a lot to learn!

🎧 What you’ll hear:

• Inside Hanoi airspace: What it felt like flying through dense SAMs, AAA, and MiGs
• October 28, 1967: Leading a major strike, getting hit, and making the call to finish the mission
• Ejection and capture: The moment everything changed
• Life inside the “Hanoi Hilton”: Torture, isolation, and survival
• Two years alone: How routine, discipline, and mindset kept him going in solitary confinement
• The tap code: Communication, connection, and resilience among POWs
• Leadership under pressure: Commanding pilots in one of the most dangerous theaters of war
• Coming home: The physical and emotional return after 5.5 years
• Perspective: Faith, service, and “every day above ground is a great day.”

Key takeaway:

Kirk’s story reframes resilience as endurance over years, built on discipline, belief, and connection to others.

About the guest:

Col. Thomas H. Kirk is a retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and combat veteran of both Korea and Vietnam. He commanded the 357th Fighter Squadron and flew missions over North Vietnam in the Republic F-105 Thunderchief. Shot down on his 67th mission, he spent more than five years as a prisoner of war. He was awarded the Air Force Cross, four Silver Stars, and multiple Distinguished Flying Crosses. After his release, he returned to active duty in leadership roles before retiring and later built a successful business career, continuing to speak on leadership and resilience.

Learn More:

• Read the full show notes on the Wings Over the Rockies website
• Donate to Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum
• Subscribe and leave a review to support the show

This episode is supported in part by United Airlines.