Why do some public spaces feel vibrant and full of life while others feel empty, over-designed, or impossible to love?

In this episode of City People, hosts Sam Roxas and Warren Logan explore what actually makes public space work. From Salesforce Park, an oasis in the sky above downtown San Francisco, to Second Street, where a city street becomes a stage for music, gathering, and civic life, we examine how great public places come to life.

Along the way, we talk with James Kirby of Biederman Redevelopment Ventures and Luke Spray of Civic Joy Fund about the real ingredients behind thriving public spaces: programming, stewardship, belonging, intention, and the people who care enough to activate them.

This episode explores:

• What public space really means in modern cities
• Why some places feel welcoming and alive, while others feel sterile
• How programming and stewardship shape the success of parks, plazas, and streets
• Who pays for great public spaces—and whether the investment is worth it
• Why streets may be the next frontier of public space
• What happens when we start treating streets as places for joy, culture, and community, not just transportation

Public space isn’t just infrastructure. It’s a canvas.
And the best spaces come alive when people decide to use them.

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In this episode, we head to Barrio Logan in San Diego, CA to spend time with the people and places that give a neighborhood its soul. We visit Libélula Books & Co., an independent bookstore that serves as a true third place: hosting readings, workshops, and creative gatherings that bring the community together, and meet artist, content creator and sign painter Koy Sun, whose hand-painted, maximalist lettering helps small businesses feel visible and distinct in an increasingly expensive, copy-paste city.

Along the way, we talk about what really makes a place feel alive: affordability, allowed uses beyond formula retail, and the policies that determine which kinds of spaces get to exist at all. We decide that the soul of a city isn’t just how it looks; it’s how it’s cared for, who it makes room for, and whether people can still put down roots.

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We’ve all done it: you really need to pee, so you buy a muffin you don’t even want… just to get the bathroom code.

In this episode, Sam and Warren uncover why public restrooms are in such short supply in cities, starting at Awaken Cafe in downtown Oakland, where one small business has quietly become the de facto public restroom for a whole slice of the city (including City Hall’s backyard, which is a little wild when you think about it). They sit down with Cortt, Awaken’s founder, to talk about what it actually means to run a “public restroom” without the public funding, the emotional labor, the conflict management, and the literal missing chunks of porcelain.

Then we hop to Berkeley for a conversation with Jess Heinzelman, co-founder of Throne, about why public bathrooms got so scarce, why they've been so damn expensive, and what it looks like to build a restroom system around dignity, design, and real operations. We get into the not-so-glamorous realities: loitering fears, vandalism, “bathrooms turning into homes,” and why “just install one” is never the end of the story. Plus: how tech, sensors, cleaning logistics, and behavioral design can make a public restroom feel more like a hotel lobby and less like a punishment.

This is a very funny episode. It’s also a serious one. Because some cities have made our sidewalks the most rational option for defecation. We know (and even more so after this episode), that this doesn't have to be the case.

We cover:

• The “bathroom code economy”
• When small businesses become emergency responders
• Why cities agree on restrooms...until it’s time to place one
• Pit Stops, Portland Loos, maintenance realities, and implementation chaos
• Why design changes behavior and why “prison cell bathrooms” backfire
• Throne’s approach: off-grid siting, data, cleanliness, and accountability
• What to ask your city councilmember if you want this to change

If you enjoyed this episode, rate and review the show. It helps more people find us.

Watch full vids of our episodes (more fun!) on youtube.