Today’s episode of the Impact Driver Podcast welcomes Zoey Grinstead (she/they), Los Angeles-based routesetter and Queer Crush founder, to the recording studio.

In a sport that prides itself on counter-cultural roots and community values, the gap between that identity and lived reality for many climbers is still very much worth talking about. The question of who belongs in routesetting—and who feels like they don’t—has arguably never been more urgent. Zoey brings a grounded, no-nonsense perspective on identity, community, and creative expression in routesetting to this week’s conversation, as she and Holly Chen discuss all these topics as well as tips for fostering inclusion.

Zoey is a routesetter at Touchstone Climbing in Los Angeles, where she has been part of the team for nearly 15 years, starting as a belay staff member before finding her way to the setting closet. With over a decade of setting experience, Zoe has worked in commercial and competition settings alike, including notable events like Death Moth in 2026 and multiple Women Up competitions. She holds a USAC Level 2 certification and is a former president of Queer Crush, a nonprofit dedicated to holding space for the queer community within climbing. Beyond the gym, Zoe is currently a student.

• How Zoey found her way into routesetting (from wilderness therapy kid to full-time setter)
• Queer Crush: what it is, how it started, and why Zoe got involved
• Affinity spaces in climbing: what they are, why they matter, and what they offer that the broader community doesn't
• Routesetting as a relative bubble: is our profession more inclusive than the broader climbing world?
• Tokenization in routesetting: how to recognize it, and how to push through it
• How setter identity and body type shape the climbing on the wall (and why diverse teams can set better gyms)
• Practical ways to support marginalized setters and help them feel at home, from offering the fiberglass to donating to affinity organizations
• The setting bag confessional: what's always in there and never gets used

• Find Zoey Grinstead on Instagram
• Touchstone Climbing and the Woman Up Climbing Festival
• Keep Them Sketched Out – Impact Driver Podcast with Claire Kawainui Miller
• Death Moth Climbing Competition
• Queer Crush Climbing
• Routesetting and climbing affinity spaces: Bolt & Revolt Setting Coalition, Brown Girls Climb, Cruxing in Color, Flash Foxy
• USAC Routesetting Resources: Path of a Routesetter (updated), Routesetting Level Prerequisites

If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.

The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Cascade Specialty, Trango and Rock Gym Pro. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

In this week’s episode, Scott Rennak sits down with Marc Norman, CEO of USA Climbing, who has been in this role for eight years and came to it with unique credentials. Previously, Marc spent two decades at the Utah Olympic Legacy Foundation, finishing as VP of Sport and Venues—overseeing three Olympic facilities, 300 employees, and the kind of large-scale operations that come with hosting some of the world's biggest sporting events. He was also a competitive athlete and has a lifelong love of climbing that dates back to a Wisconsin crag in the early ‘90s.

During their conversation, Marc and Scott dig into some deep topics within competition climbing today. They cover USA Climbing's ambitious National Training Center project in Salt Lake City—including the partnership with Momentum, the community pushback, and how the facility is being designed to serve athletes. They also explore the youth athlete pipeline, how climbing can capitalize on its LA 2028 Olympic moment (including paraclimbing's debut on the Paralympic program), and what it's going to take for the whole industry to convert that exposure into real foot traffic and long-term growth.

• Leadership and Background of Marc Norman
• National Training Center Project in Salt Lake City
• Industry Partnerships (USA Climbing × Momentum)
• Community Response and Pushback
• Youth Athlete Pipeline Development
• Olympics and Global Exposure (LA 2028 and paraclimbing)
• Converting Awareness Into Gym Growth

• USA Climbing
• USAC National Training Center
• USAC Strategic Planning
• Climbing at LA28
• Marc Norman on Linkedin

Thank you Cascade Specialty, Climbing Wall Association, Rúngne, Rock Gym Pro and Kilter for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today’s guest is Zuoyi (pronounced: Zoe) Phang, a routesetter based in Durham, North Carolina, and a member of the setting team at Triangle Rock Club. Zuoyi began climbing in 2018 after a friend invited her to a gym birthday party and she quickly “fell down the rabbit hold,” climbing nearly every day while balancing long shifts in the service industry. Not long after, she was recruited into routesetting and has been building her experience ever since, working across multiple Triangle Rock Club locations and setting USA Climbing events across the Southeast. Notably, Zuoyi has also set for Siege the Southeast. Zuoyi is a USA Climbing Level 2 routesetter with plans to step into her first chief roles in the near future.

In this episode, Zuoyi and host Holly Chen dive into the human side of routesetting: the emotions that come with creative work, the role ego plays in the craft, and how team members can support each other through the inevitable frictions of collaborative setting.

• Why routesetting can be more emotional than people expect
• Managing frustration, feedback and vulnerability when sharing climbs with the public
• How ego shows up in routesetting, and the difference between healthy pride and destructive ego
• Using curiosity and communication to navigate disagreements about grades, movement and style
• How body types, strengths, and climbing backgrounds shape setters’ perspectives
• Recognizing when a teammate is struggling and how crews can support each other during a tough day
• The role of leadership and crew dynamics in diffusing tension on a setting team
• Balancing innovation and practicality when testing new ideas on the wall
• What an ideal routesetting team culture can look like, and the importance of staying serious about the craft but lighthearted enough to enjoy the process

• Find Zuoyi Phang on Instagram
• Triangle Rock Club
• Siege Climbing
• An Episode of Affirmations: Battling Imposter Syndrome with Ethan Paris

If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.

The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, Approach and Onsite. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.