Former NSW Premier Bob Carr on losing his wife Helena, and the year of grief that followed. A long, honest conversation about bereavement.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

In 2023, Bob Carr's wife Helena died of an aneurysm in his arms in Vienna, after a night at the opera. She'd been his constant companion for more than 50 years. The former NSW Premier and Foreign Minister has written about it in his book, Bring Back Yesterday. This week Sarah Macdonald sits down with Bob for a long, honest conversation about losing a life partner. What grief actually feels like. Why it comes in waves, not stages. And what to do if you're caring for a parent who's just been widowed.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit https://clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

In this episode:

This Week's Hack: There's no time limit on grief. If you're caring for a widowed parent, your job is to be present. Get them talking. Listen for the stories you didn't know. Sit with the photograph albums. And pay close attention to what their partner did. The cooking. The driving. The banking. The washing machine. The second unmooring after a death is practical, not just emotional.

Listener Letter: Send this to a friend whose parent has been recently widowed, or to a friend in their own grief. No commentary needed.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader. CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble. Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg. GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward. Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan. Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

Topics covered in this episode:
- The pharmacy in Vienna, and being "banished to the world of bereavement"
- Who Helena was. Her career running a security printing business. Her smile. Her quiet strength.
- The night at the opera in Vienna, and the aneurysm
- Coming home alone with her ashes, and the year Bob walked the city
- Why grief comes in waves, not stages
- The empty house. The jar of honey in the fridge. The objects without animating force.
- What Helena did. The cooking, the driving, the internet banking, the washing machine.
- A metallic taste in the soul. C.S. Lewis on grief as slight concussion.
- The patience grieving people need, and the friends who expect you to "get on with it"
- Writing the book, and C.S. Lewis's fear of "snow piling on top of her"
- The books that helped: Joan Didion, Geraldine Brooks, Julian Barnes, Gabriel García Márquez
- Recruiting friends. Filling the diary as a survival tactic.
- For anyone caring for a widowed parent. Get them talking. No time limit. The photograph albums.

Mentioned in this episode:
- Bring Back Yesterday by Bob Carr
- The Year of Magical Thinking by Joan Didion
- Memorial Days by Geraldine Brooks
- A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis
- Love in the Time of Cholera by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
- Levels of Life by Julian Barnes

Credits:
Club Sandwich is brought to you by Vera, helping families caring for ageing parents navigate this stage of life so you don't have to do it alone.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit https://clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

This episode is supported by Australian Unity Home Health and Care. Proactive local care that helps your parents stay independent and living well at home. Visit https://australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Need more clarity at 3 AM? Vera gives you a structured 15-minute voice conversation to help you understand where your parent stands and what to do next. Discover more at https://vera.guide.

Sarah Macdonald – Host and Executive Producer.
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer and Clubber.
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer.
Audio + video edits by P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Theme music 'Club Sandwich' by Sean Wayland. Hear more from Sean at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

86% of us never have this conversation with our ageing parents. So we built you a way in. Free guide at https://putthekettleon.com.au — and a podcast episode to walk you through it. Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit https://clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

In this episode:
The Conversation: Sarah Macdonald and Kerry Milligan model the five Put The Kettle On questions live — what makes a good day, what independence looks like, who can help with decisions, the life-matters stuff (will, advance care directive, power of attorney, enduring guardianship), and the story you'd want remembered. Then clinical psychologist Jo Lamble debriefs the conversation — where Sarah pushed too hard, where Kerry blanched, and how to keep it a kindness instead of an interrogation when you do it at home.

This Week's Hack: Start with the good. "Tell me what a good day looks like for you." Don't open with the will, the aged-care plan, or what they want at the funeral. Open with the bit they want to keep. The rest gets easier when they're already leaning in.

Listener Letter / Send-this-to: Send this to your siblings. Before any of you turn up at the kitchen table, agree which one of you is going to lead the conversation. Five voices around the table is an intervention. One voice with a cup of tea is a chat.

Hot Mess Moment: Kerry's idea of a good day — start in bed, swim, dance class, walk the dog, coffee with the girls, and then the "fancy man" for "a bit of horizontal tango." Sarah: "Probably too much information if you're doing this with a child." Kerry: noted.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Why 86% of us never have this conversation — and why 70 is a good time to start
- The five Put The Kettle On questions, walked through live
- What makes a good day — and what your parent would hate to lose
- Independence, driving, and the dings on the car that tell you it's time
- Showering, toileting, packaged dinners and who you'd let help
- Who could speak for you when you can't speak for yourself
- Wills, advance care directives, power of attorney, enduring guardianship — the bits everyone skips
- The "I don't feel old enough yet" block — why even the most organised among us put one thing off
- Forever-young baby boomers and the trouble with imagining yourself at 87
- Why one sibling, not all of them, should lead the chat
- Reading the room — when to push, when to put another kettle on
- A free guide so you can do this at home — https://putthekettleon.com.au

Mentioned in this episode:
Put The Kettle On — free guide at https://putthekettleon.com.au
Stay For Supper with Dr Kathryn Mannix — Tuesday 2 June, Sydney. Tickets at https://clubsandwich.community or search "Stay For Supper" on Humanitix.

Credits:
Club Sandwich is brought to you by Vera, helping families caring for ageing parents navigate this stage of life so you don't have to do it alone.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit https://clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

This episode was supported by Australian Unity Home Health and Care — proactive local care that helps your parents stay independent and living well at home. Visit https://australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Sometimes you need a debrief. And sometimes you need a plan. Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent — turns the system into a few clear next steps, and walks beside the conversations that are hardest to start. No forms. No pressure. Just plain words and a steadier next step. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

Sarah Macdonald — Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader — Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur — Executive Producer
Audio + video edits by P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our awesome theme music Club Sandwich — hear more from Sean at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sandwich-generation carers don't get a holiday — not even on Mother's Day. Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

In this episode:
The Conversation: Sarah Macdonald and clinical psychologist Jo Lamble unpack the relationship shift nobody warns you about — when your mum stops worrying about you and starts needing you. They cover role reversal, unfiltered comments, re-triggered old wounds, the sibling who flies in like royalty, caring for mums who weren't there at all, and the long tail of Mother's Day grief.

This Week's Hack: Compartmentalise. Have shower time / scream time. Acknowledge the pain. Then close the box and be the person you want to be.

Listener Letter / Send-this-to: Send this to a sibling — let Jo Lamble say what you've been trying to say for months. Or send it to a friend who's about to have a hard Mother's Day.

Hot Mess Moment: Sarah's mum at the eye doctor announcing — loud enough for the whole shop — that "we got that thing because we were r*ped by Vikings."

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

Topics covered in this episode:
- The sudden shift from being cared for to caring
- Role reversal — doing up your mother's seatbelt
- When personalities harden (or soften) with age
- The lucky few — when your mum was your rock
- When caring re-triggers old wounds and old patterns
- Compartmentalising — shower time, scream time
- When your mum loses her filter
- When she rewrites your history
- The sibling who flies in like royalty
- Caring for a mum who wasn't there for you
- Why Jo Lamble hates the word "boundaries"
- Mother's Day grief that doesn't end
- Making Mother's Day about you too — even just for 20 minutes

Credits:
Club Sandwich is brought to you by Vera, helping families caring for ageing parents navigate this stage of life so you don't have to do it alone.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

Need more clarity at 3 AM? Vera gives you a structured 15-minute voice conversation to help you understand where your parent stands and what to do next. Discover more at vera.guide.

Sarah Macdonald — Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader — Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur — Executive Producer
Audio + video edits by P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our awesome theme music Club Sandwich — hear more from Sean at seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.