The word “ROC” written in blood shocked investigators and the public alike. But in Part Two of The Murder of Karen Pannell, the truth emerges not from what was written on the wall — but from what the evidence refused to ignore.

In this episode, Dark Dialogue follows the case into the courtroom, where forensic science, timelines, and witness testimony dismantled the idea of a dying declaration and exposed a carefully staged crime scene. Prosecutors laid out a case built on bloodstain pattern analysis, medical testimony, DNA evidence, cell-tower data, and a collapsing alibi — while the defense fought to inject reasonable doubt through challenges to interpretation, memory, and motive.

We examine the full trial: • The medical examiner’s testimony and why Karen could not have written “ROC” • Bloodstain analysis proving the message was added after the attack • DNA evidence tying Tim Permenter to a close, violent struggle — and excluding others • Cell-tower records and eyewitness timelines that placed him at the scene through the night • George Solomon’s account of a late-night confession and request for cover • Tim Permenter’s decision to testify — and how jurors weighed his explanations

The episode concludes with the jury’s verdict, the death-penalty recommendation, the judge’s ultimate sentence of life without parole, and the appellate rulings that upheld the conviction. We also return to Karen — not as evidence, but as a person — in a final victim tribute that centers her life, her strength, and the cost of intimate-partner violence.

This is not a story about a word written in blood. It is a story about control, deception, and how truth survives even the most deliberate attempts to bury it.

Original music featured in the victim tribute includes “Paper Wings” by JJ Hawk, produced by Hawk Studios, and used with permission. Learn more about JJ Hawk and Hawk Studios here: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61574578047424

If you found value in this episode, please help us keep Dark Dialogue independent and in-depth:

• Like this episode • Share it with someone who listens thoughtfully • Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — reviews truly help independent podcasts grow • If you’re watching on YouTube, thumbs up, subscribe, and hit the bell so you don’t miss future episodes

🌐 Website: https://darkdialogue.com 📧 Email: info@darkdialogue.com

Follow Dark Dialogue on social media for updates, research notes, and upcoming cases across the Dark Dialogue Podcast Network.

To support the work directly, visit our links for Ko-fi, Patreon, and Substack — your support helps fund research, production, and victim-centered storytelling.

And to honor victims beyond the podcast, visit our Victim Tribute pages on the Dark Dialogue website, where we remember the people behind the cases — not just the crimes committed against them.

Listener discretion advised: this episode contains discussion of violent crime and graphic details.

In October 2003, 39-year-old airline professional Karen Pannell was found stabbed to death inside her Oldsmar, Florida villa. Near her body, written in blood on the kitchen wall, was a single word: “ROC.”

At first, investigators believed they were looking at a dying message — a final act of identification left by a woman who knew she was dying. Karen’s ex-boyfriend, whose nickname was Roc, became the immediate focus.

But the evidence didn’t hold.

In this first episode of a two-part investigation, Dark Dialogue examines how a crime scene that seemed to explain itself slowly unraveled. Forensic analysis revealed the blood writing was staged. Cell-tower data contradicted alibis. Witnesses stepped forward. And a relationship marked by control, deception, and a hidden violent past came sharply into focus.

This episode follows:

• The discovery of Karen’s body and the initial investigation
• Why the bloody message pointed investigators in the wrong direction
• How forensic science exposed staging rather than truth
• The “exit-ramp danger zone” — the statistically most lethal moment in abusive relationships
• The early cracks that shifted the case away from a framed suspect and toward the real killer

This is not just a murder story. It’s a case study in how control escalates when it begins to fail, and why leaving an abusive relationship is often the most dangerous step of all.

Part Two will take listeners into the courtroom — where lies collapse, evidence speaks, and accountability is finally forced into the open.

If You or Someone You Know Needs Help

If you are in immediate danger, call 911 (U.S.) or your local emergency number right now.

Confidential support is available 24/7:

• National Domestic Violence Hotline (U.S.) 📞 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) 💬 Text START to 88788 🌐 https://www.thehotline.org
• National Center for Victims of Crime 📞 855-4-VICTIM (855-484-2846) 🌐 https://victimsofcrime.org
• StrongHearts Native Helpline 📞 1-844-7NATIVE (1-844-762-8483) 🌐 https://strongheartshelpline.org

Leaving an abusive relationship is dangerous — but you do not have to do it alone. Advocates can help you create a safety plan tailored to your situation.

How You Can Take Action Beyond Listening

• Join the Adopt-a-Victim Program Help support research, records review, and investigative work for a missing or unsolved case: 👉 www.darkdialogue.com
• Read and Share Victim Blog Posts Help keep victims’ names and stories visible: 👉 www.darkdialogue.com
• Support the Show & Receive Members-Only Perks
  • Patreon: https://patreon.com/DarkDialoguepod
  • Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/darkdialogue
  • Substack: https://darkdialoguecrime.substack.com
• Send Kudos, Questions, or Critiques 📧 info@darkdialogue.com
• Like, Share, Subscribe, Review Thumbs up, leave a review, ring the bell — these actions directly help the show reach more listeners and keep cases like Karen’s from fading into silence.
• Check Out Our Other Shows 🎙 Dark Dialogue (long-form investigations) 🎙 Dark Dialogue: Shadow Chat Sessions Available everywhere podcasts are listened to.

Part Two drops next — and the truth doesn’t stay hidden forever.

…and keep the dialogue alive…

Christmas is supposed to be a refuge—a pause from the chaos, a promise of peace. But for many families, Christmas doesn’t calm the storm. It traps it.

In this Dark Dialogue Distilled Christmas Special, John examines some of the most disturbing cases of domestic violence and family annihilation to occur on or around Christmas—not as isolated tragedies, but as part of a repeating and deeply uncomfortable pattern.

From the 1929 Lawson family murders in North Carolina, to the unresolved mystery of the Sodder children, to the Carnation family massacre, the Covina Christmas Eve Santa-suit attack, and modern cases where violence unfolded quietly behind closed doors, this episode strips away holiday mythology and confronts the truth:

Christmas doesn’t create abuse. It concentrates it.

Alcohol, financial pressure, forced proximity, isolation, and the expectation that everything should “look fine” collide—often with devastating consequences. These crimes were not spontaneous. They were escalations of control, resentment, entitlement, and fear that already existed long before the tree went up.

This episode is not about fear-mongering. It’s about honesty.

It’s about recognizing that holidays can be a high-risk moment for those already living with domestic violence—and that silence, tradition, and appearances can be deadly.

You’ll also hear a data-driven discussion that separates myth from reality: why December is not statistically the deadliest month overall, yet remains a documented danger window for escalation, emergency calls, and lethal outcomes.

We close with a Christmas victim tribute, honoring the lives lost—not for how they died, but for how they lived—and a reminder that checking in, listening, and refusing to look away can matter more than any tradition.

If this episode resonates with you, or raises concern for someone you love, please don’t ignore that feeling. Help is available. Reaching out is not weakness—it’s survival.

• Follow or subscribe to Dark Dialogue Distilled wherever you listen • Rate and review the show if your platform allows—it helps these stories reach the people who need them • Share this episode with someone who should hear it • Watch on YouTube, subscribe, and turn on notifications • Join us live on New Year’s night for the Dark Dialogue live show 👉 darkdialogue.com/live

true crime domestic violence family annihilators Christmas crimes holiday violence Dark Dialogue Dark Dialogue Distilled true crime podcast holiday domestic abuse family murder cases Christmas Eve murders intimate partner violence true crime analysis crime psychology violent relationships family massacre cases unsolved mysteries crime patterns victim advocacy

Sometimes you need a break from the heavy stuff — and that’s where Shadow Chat Sessions comes in.

In this episode, John and Angela dive headfirst into a chaotic mix of strange headlines, conspiracy nonsense, Reddit rabbit holes, dumb criminal behavior, and truly weird shit that absolutely does not matter… but is way too entertaining to ignore.

You’ll hear the unbelievable true story of a babysitter who checked under a child’s bed for monsters and found a real man hiding there, why some people are convinced King Charles is secretly a vampire, and the deeply unsettling mystery of a stranger who appears in decades of childhood photos without ever aging.

The Dipshit Diaries deliver peak criminal incompetence — including a robber who left his phone number at the crime scene, a nail salon robbery defeated by total indifference, and a car thief who managed to trap himself inside the vehicle he was trying to steal.

Then things get even stranger with man-eating spider legends from the Congo, haunted wedding venues built on battlefields, moon unicorns that fooled 19th-century America, a beer-drinking bear who became an enlisted WWII soldier, and the infamous severed-leg-in-a-grill case that somehow ended up on Judge Mathis.

It’s weird. It’s absurd. It’s darkly funny. And for once — none of it actually matters.

That’s the therapy.

If you enjoy the chaos and want to support what we do:

• Visit DarkDialogue.com to explore all shows on the Dark Dialogue Podcast Network • Support us on Patreon, Ko-fi, or Substack for behind-the-scenes content and updates • Subscribe, follow, rate, and review — it helps more than you think • Send your weird stories, dumb criminals, rabbit holes, or feedback to info@darkdialogue.com

New episodes drop regularly. Laugh responsibly.

Dark Dialogue: Unraveled Truths returns with a deep, unscripted examination of Making a Murderer, starting at the beginning.

In this episode, John and Angela break down Episodes 1–3, not to recap them—but to interrogate them. We examine how narrative framing, selective editing, and strategic omissions shape public opinion long before juries ever hear the evidence. From Steven Avery’s exoneration to the early construction of conspiracy, this episode explores what the documentary emphasizes, what it minimizes, and what it leaves out entirely.

This is not a verdict. This is not a defense. It’s an examination of how true-crime storytelling influences belief.

If you’ve ever felt pulled toward certainty by a documentary, this episode is your reminder: don’t take it at face value

Unraveled Truths Making a Murde…

.

We’re ringing in the New Year LIVE with a Dark Dialogue livestream—no edits, no polish, just real conversation.

🕛 New Year’s Night 🎙️ Live discussion of cases, documentaries, and what’s coming next for the Dark Dialogue Podcast Network 🔗 Join us live: https://darkdialogue.com/live

Set a reminder, bookmark the page, and jump in with us in real time

Unraveled Truths Making a Murde…

.

If you enjoy this kind of deep-dive documentary analysis:

• Follow the show so you don’t miss future episodes of Unraveled Truths

• Support independent storytelling at darkdialogue.com

• Explore bonus content, live discussions, and upcoming investigations across the Dark Dialogue Podcast Network

From all of us here—thank you for listening, thank you for supporting independent true-crime analysis, and keep the dialogue alive

Unraveled Truths Making a Murde…

.

On the second day of a siege, the gunfire matters less than the waiting.

Day Two of the Battle of Lincoln (July 16, 1878) does not erupt—it calcifies. The town seals itself shut. Civilians barricade behind adobe walls. Gunmen hold positions they cannot abandon. And law enforcement, unable to compel surrender, begins looking upward for force it cannot legally command.

In this episode of Gallows & Gunfights, we examine Day Two of the Lincoln siege not as a shootout, but as a stress test applied to authority itself.

Inside the McSween house, Billy the Kid and the Regulators hold their ground under sustained but calculated fire. Outside, Sheriff George Peppin and the Murphy–Dolan faction confront an uncomfortable reality: numbers and badges are no longer enough.

This episode covers:

• The full tactical stalemate of Day Two

• Civilian confinement and the transformation of homes into firing positions

• Billy the Kid’s role as a fixed defensive force

• The request for federal artillery—and its legal denial

• The firing upon a U.S. Army courier

• How accusation, not evidence, reshaped the narrative

• Why restraint—not bloodshed—became the hinge point of the siege

By nightfall, no ground has changed hands. But the conflict no longer belongs solely to Lincoln.

This is not myth. This is record.

If you value evidence-driven historical accountability, you can support this work at:

• Patreon: https://patreon.com/DarkDialoguepod

• Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/darkdialogue

• Substack: https://darkdialoguecrime.substack.com

Help preserve the names erased by frontier violence at www.darkdialogue.com

Research, documentation, or formal inquiries: info@darkdialogue.com

On Thanksgiving 2018, Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth vanished without a trace. Her fiancé, Patrick Frazee, was later convicted of beating her to death and burning her remains. But this Distilled episode isn’t just about the murder — it’s about the woman who helped him cover it up.

This is the story of Krystal Lee Kenney. A rodeo queen. A nurse. A mother. And the only witness who knew every step of Frazee’s plan.

In this episode, we break down:

• The three failed “murder assignments” Frazee gave her
• The psychological grooming that kept her under his control
• The four-hour crime scene cleanup she performed alone
• The burning of Kelsey's remains that she stood by and watched
• Her deeply controversial plea deal and early release
• Why prosecutors called it “a deal with the devil”
• How her testimony secured Frazee’s life sentence
• The moral question: coerced… or complicit?

You’ll hear a long-form tribute to Kelsey — not as a victim, but as a mother, daughter, pilot, and woman who deserved a lifetime of moments she never got to live.

If you value the work: Follow, rate, review, and hit the bell — it truly helps the show reach more people. Support deeper investigations on Patreon, Ko-fi, and Substack, or send case suggestions to info@darkdialogue.com.

This is Dark Dialogue: Distilled. Stay curious. Stay relentless… and don’t let the truth go silent.

In May 1993, three eight-year-old boys were found murdered in a drainage ditch in West Memphis, Arkansas. What followed became one of the most controversial criminal cases in American history — driven by fear, moral panic, and a justice system desperate for answers.

This is not a traditional deep dive.

In the debut episode of Dark Dialogue: Unraveled Truths, John McColl sits down with Angela for an unfiltered, unscripted conversation about the West Memphis Three — a case so embedded in true crime culture that even decades later, it still ignites anger, disbelief, and unanswered questions. No polished timeline. No scripted forensic walkthrough. Just lived research, firsthand reactions, and the uncomfortable realities that refuse to stay buried.

Together, they examine the Paradise Lost documentaries, the role of Satanic Panic in 1990s policing, the deeply flawed confession that anchored the prosecutions, and the cascade of investigative failures that shaped the outcome from the very beginning. From the unexplained “Bojangles” incident to mishandled evidence and ignored leads, this episode challenges how narrative replaced proof — and how three teenagers became casualties of institutional failure.

This conversation arrives at a critical moment. In late 2025, after years of legal battles and public pressure, a judge finally approved advanced DNA testing on key evidence, including the shoelaces used to bind the victims. For the first time in decades, modern forensic science may finally answer the question that has haunted this case for over thirty years:

If it wasn’t them… who was it?

Dark Dialogue: Unraveled Truths exists to revisit infamous cases without reverence for broken systems or comfort in familiar conclusions. Some stories don’t end with a verdict. Some truths remain buried because digging is inconvenient. This series is about pulling those cases apart — carefully, critically, and without fear of where the answers lead.

If you value investigative journalism, victim advocacy, and long-form case analysis done with integrity:

• Subscribe on Substack for long-form articles, case updates, and exclusive written investigations

• Join the Dark Dialogue Collective on Patreon to support independent research and gain access to bonus content

• Support directly via Ko-fi to help fund ongoing investigations and production

• Visit DarkDialogue.com for victim tributes, case resources, and network updates

Your support helps keep these stories alive — and ensures they’re told with the care they deserve.