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Exploring the Human-AI Connection

This conversation goes places most AI discussions don't. We get into why most companies don't have an AI problem — they have a human-AI coordination problem — and what that distinction changes about how organizations actually adopt these tools. We also talk about whether AI can dream, what the word "hallucination" reveals about our assumptions, and what it looks like to leave a staff-level role and build something completely your own. Plus: what parenting a two-year-old in the age of AI is teaching him about the things no model can replace.

Aaron Kagan has spent his career studying the gap between how people actually think and how the technologies we build assume they think. At Google, Meta Reality Labs, and Native Instruments, he was asking the same question the whole time — and going independent with GraspingAI gave him the space to finally pursue it on his own terms.

Bonus: the rubber duck analogy that perfectly captures what AI actually does when we think it's being creative.

About Aaron Kagan

Aaron Kagan is founder of GraspingAI, a human-centered AI research and strategy practice, and co-author of An Introduction to the Embodied Mind (Routledge, 2026). He held staff-level UX research roles at Google, Google X, Meta Reality Labs, and Native Instruments, studying how people think, decide, and work with complex technologies. He now helps individuals and organizations build better relationships with AI through research, strategy, and open community workshops.

Connect with Aaron: linkedin.com/in/aaronkagan | graspingai.com

About your host

Christine Kahn is a Staff Technical Program Manager with 12+ years leading AI platforms and program delivery at Intuit, OpenTable, 20th Century Fox, and Realtor.com; and a musician and soundbath practitioner outside of it.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/christinekahn | christinekmusic.com

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This conversation is about what happens when you realize your TPM and ops skills are already a product and decide to package them. Martina shares the origin story behind Clervio, the fractional operator venture she co-founded with partner Jim Elvidge while navigating her next chapter. We get into the juggle, the mindset shift, and why a friend in Paris funding a writing life through walking tours became a concrete blueprint for what's possible.

Bonus: What crochet teaches you about pacing a transformation.

Martina Ziegenfuss spent years inside big tech turning complexity into execution: post-acquisition integrations, cross-functional programs, operating model design. She's the person you call when things need to actually work.

Then she built something of her own.

About Martina Ziegenfuss

Martina Ziegenfuss is co-founder of Clervio, a fractional operator and enterprise transformation venture, alongside partner Jim Elvidge. She also runs MZConsulting, where she works as a Fractional Chief of Staff for CEOs and leadership teams navigating M&A, operating model changes, and transformation. She previously held cross-functional delivery and operations roles at Intuit and NortonLifeLock.

Connect with Martina: linkedin.com/in/martinaz | clerv.io

About your host

Christine Kahn is a Staff Technical Program Manager with 12+ years leading AI platforms and program delivery at Intuit, OpenTable, 20th Century Fox, and Realtor.com; and a musician and soundbath practitioner outside of it.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/christinekahn | christinekmusic.com

Support the show

© 2026 Dreams and Delivery LLC. All rights reserved.

Send us Fan Mail

This conversation is about what it feels like when your work stops matching your frequency and what it takes to build something completely different. Mary-Lynne also shares how AI agents have reshaped her workflow, freeing her to put her energy where it matters most: the humans in front of her.

Mary-Lynne Williams spent 20 years delivering at the highest levels of tech in Microsoft, Meta, Zillow. Product design, systems thinking, leading teams. By every external measure, she was succeeding.

Then she left to found Buffalo Firefly, a sound healing company now operating in Richmond and Brooklyn.

About Mary-Lynne Williams Mary-Lynne Williams is the founder and CEO of Buffalo Firefly, an energy wellness company bringing sound healing and energy medicine to communities in NYC and Richmond, VA. Before founding Buffalo Firefly, she spent over two decades as a product design leader at Microsoft, Meta, and Zillow, working at the intersection of systems thinking, user experience, and human behavior.

Connect with Mary-Lynne: linkedin.com/in/mary-lynne-williams-4a90932 | buffalofirefly.com

About your host Christine Kahn is a Staff Technical Program Manager with 12+ years leading AI platforms and program delivery at Intuit, OpenTable, 20th Century Fox, and Realtor.com; and a musician and soundbath practitioner outside of it.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/christinekahn | christinekmusic.com

Support the show

© 2026 Dreams and Delivery LLC. All rights reserved.