What if the real work of leadership doesn’t happen in the meeting room?

In this episode of Wired for Change, Amy Yee is joined by Sergio Marchi — former Canadian Minister of International Trade and Ambassador to the World Trade Organization — for a conversation about how trust is actually built in complex systems.

Drawing on his experience in global diplomacy, trade missions, and international negotiation, Sergio shares how relationships, proximity, and informal interaction often shape outcomes in ways formal structures cannot.

From Team Canada trade missions to behind-the-scenes dynamics in Geneva — and even recurring soccer games with fellow diplomats — this episode explores how meaningful progress is often driven outside of official settings.

But this isn’t just a conversation about diplomacy.

It’s about leadership.

Across sectors — from boardrooms and public service to startups and global institutions — the ability to convene, listen, and build trust may be one of the most important (and overlooked) leadership capabilities today.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why informal interactions often shape outcomes more than formal meetings
• How trust is built — and why it’s easily lost — in high-stakes environments
• The hidden dynamics behind global trade and diplomacy
• What leaders need to understand about timing, convening, and influence
• When bringing people together creates value — and when it creates risk
• Why listening may be the most underrated leadership skill

If you’re leading in complexity — across teams, organizations, or systems — this conversation offers a powerful lens on how change actually begins.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction & Sergio Marchi Returns
02:00 Inspiring the Next Generation in Public Life
04:00 The Case for Team Canada Trade Missions
09:00 A Chance Meeting That Became a Strategic Relationship
12:00 What Trade Missions Signal to the World
16:00 Trust as the Foundation of Diplomacy
19:00 Informal Connection as a Catalyst for Trust
23:00 Inclusion, Exclusivity, and Effective Groups
27:00 How Informal Conversations Drive Outcomes
31:00 Leadership, Volunteers, and Investing in People
37:00 Inside the WTO: Formal vs Informal Power
43:00 Reading the Room: Timing and Tension
49:00 Why Convening Matters More Than Ever
52:00 What Makes a Gathering Effective
55:00 When Not to Convene
57:00 Relationships vs Institutions
01:00:00 The Power of Listening