Episodes

  • Kelsey McGinnis on the Worship Industry and the Future of Church Music
    Mar 3 2026

    How did contemporary praise and worship develop—and who is shaping what the church sings today?

    In this episode, Loren talks with Kelsey McGinnis to explore the evolution of modern worship, the lingering effects of the “worship wars,” and the growing influence of the worship industry on local congregations.

    They discuss how large-scale production and publishing networks shape song selection and theology, the unseen pressures facing worship leaders, and what healthy support actually looks like in a local church. The conversation also revisits the hymns versus modern worship debate, the renewed interest in liturgy, and whether lament, silence, and stillness have space in contemporary services.

    This episode offers a thoughtful, grounded look at how what we sing forms what we believe—and how churches might lead worship more intentionally in the years ahead.

    Together they explore:

    • The rise of contemporary praise and worship

    • How the worship industry shapes theology and song selection

    • The pressures facing today’s worship leaders

    • Hymns, liturgy, and the place of lament

    • Whether secular songs belong in church

    Kelsey McGinnis is the worship correspondent for Christianity Today. She holds a PhD in musicology and teaches music and theology at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, and writes broadly on Christian music and the intersection of American Christianity and popular culture. Kelsey is a coauthor of the book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting and the author of a forthcoming book about Christian diet and wellness culture. She lives in central Iowa with her husband and three children.

    Mentioned Resources:

    🌐 Kelsey's Website: https://www.kkramermcginnis.com/

    📖 Kelsey's Book: The Myth of Good Christian Parenting

    🟧 Kelsey's Substack: https://kkramermcginnis.substack.com/

    📱 Instagram: @kelseykmcginnis

    🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon

    🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michael Huerter

    🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller

    Connect with Future Christian:

    📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/

    📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/

    📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/

    🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/

    Supporting Sponsors:

    Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.

    Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!

    Future Christian Team:

    Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

    Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

    Dennis Sanders – Producer

    SEO / Keywords

    contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

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    1 hr and 10 mins
  • Tanita Maddox on What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God
    Feb 24 2026

    What does Gen Z really believe about God? And what are they actually asking?

    In this episode, Loren talks with Tanita Tualla Maddox, National Director for Generational Impact at Young Life and author of What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God. Tanita offers a compelling case for cultural apologetics—understanding the lens through which Gen Z asks timeless questions like “Is God good?” She also challenges churches to move from abstract teaching to concrete spiritual practices that help young people live out their faith in real relationships.

    Together they explore:

    • Why headlines about Gen Z “revival” can be misleading

    • The reality of low trust culture—and how to earn it

    • How Gen Z defines acceptance, belonging, and safety

    • Why evangelism must go beyond “just invite your friends to church”

    • Practical ways churches can disciple students in a post-Christian world

    • The importance of teaching young people to articulate their own testimony

    • Why isolating teenagers from the broader church might be a mistake

    Tanita Tualla Maddox (DMin, Phoenix Seminary) is the national director for generational impact for Young Life and serves as an associate regional director in the Mountain West Young Life region. With an expertise in contextualizing the gospel for Gen Z, Tanita has been featured on The Holy Post podcast and has been published in The Great Commission Research Journal, the Journal of Youth and Theology, and more. She has served as Young Life leader with adolescents for over twenty-six years and serves as a volunteer Young Life leader in her local community. She lives in Spokane, Washington, with her husband and two children.

    Mentioned Resources:

    🌐 Her Website: https://tanitamaddox.com/

    📖 Her Book: https://www.ivpress.com/what-gen-z-really-wants-to-know-about-god

    📱 Instagram & FB: @drtanitamaddox

    🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr

    Connect with Future Christian:

    📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/

    📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/

    📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/

    🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/

    Supporting Sponsors:

    Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.

    Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!

    Future Christian Team:

    Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

    Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

    Dennis Sanders – Producer

    SEO / Keywords

    Tanita Tualla Maddox, Gen Z faith, What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God, Young Life, generational ministry, youth ministry strategy, cultural apologetics, post-Christian culture, evangelism training, Gen Z and church, belonging and acceptance, discipling teenagers, low trust culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

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    47 mins
  • Bill & Kristi Gaultiere on Emotional Health, Empathy, and Sustainable Ministry
    Feb 17 2026
    What happens when pastors care for everyone else—but neglect their own soul? In this episode, Loren talks with Bill and Kristi Gaultiere, founders of Soul Shepherding and co-authors of Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Together, they explore why emotional health is not optional for Christian leaders—and why empathy begins with receiving God’s love, not just offering it to others. Drawing from decades of experience in psychology, spiritual direction, and ministry leadership, the Gaultieres unpack the difference between empathy and indulgence, how unaddressed shame leads to burnout, and why pastors must have a safe place to be listened to and prayed for. They also discuss: Why emotions are gifts—but terrible masters The danger of processing unresolved wounds from the platform Burnout warning signs every pastor should recognize Compassion fatigue and isolation in ministry Why leaders must receive pastoral care, not just provide it This conversation is a candid and practical guide for church leaders who want their ministry to flow from healing and authenticity rather than exhaustion and performance. Bill is a psychologist (PhD) and ordained pastor and Kristi is a licensed professional counselor (PsyD). Together they lead Soul Shepherding, which is a nonprofit ministry to help pastors, leaders, churches, and others to go deeper with Jesus in emotional health and loving leadership. They lead immersive retreats that integrate Jesus-centered psychology and spiritual formation. Participants have the option to earn a Certificate in Spiritual Direction to improve their relationship skills and earn side income as a spiritual director or coach. They are authors of a number of soul care books, including Journey of the Soul, which was #1 on Amazon in Christian Counseling, and Healthy Feelings, Thriving Faith. Their newest book is Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Bill and Kristi have provided over 100,000 hours helping clients in therapy or spiritual direction. They were also personally mentored by Dallas and Jane Willard for many years. They have developed a unique approach to spiritual direction that is informed by their Jesus-centered psychology. Their two-year Certificate in Spiritual Direction training program is a hybrid of in person retreats and online training (or it can be completed 100% online) and currently has over 150 students participating. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Their Website: www.soulshepherding.org 🌐 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/billgaultiere 📱 Instagram & FB: @soulshepherding 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Josh Packard 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tara Beth Leach Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Bill Gaultiere, Kristi Gaultiere, Soul Shepherding, Deeply Loved book, empathy in ministry, pastoral burnout, emotional health for pastors, compassion fatigue, spiritual direction training, church leadership formation, sustainable ministry, shame and leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
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    50 mins
  • Why We Still Plant Churches: Len Tang on Mission, Formation, and Change
    Feb 10 2026

    Why should we still be planting churches—and what should church planting look like in a rapidly changing world?

    In this episode, Loren is joined by Len Tang, Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, for a wide-ranging conversation about mission, formation, and the future of church planting.

    Drawing on his experience planting churches and training planters across diverse contexts, Len reframes church planting as a normal part of the church’s life cycle—one that includes birth, growth, reproduction, and sometimes faithful endings. The conversation explores why growth alone is an inadequate metric, how global migration is reshaping mission fields, and why new expressions of church must be deeply contextual, diverse, and disciple-centered.

    Loren and Len also discuss the emotional and spiritual realities of church planting: grief, resilience, failure, and the importance of practices like Sabbath, lament, and community support. Rather than treating church planting as a silver bullet, the episode makes the case for forming leaders with character, humility, and a deep grounding in the way of Jesus.

    This is a thoughtful conversation for pastors, planters, denominational leaders, and anyone discerning how the church can participate faithfully in God’s mission today.

    Topics Include
    • Why church planting is a normal—and finite—part of church life

    • Growth, reproduction, and the reality of church endings

    • Global migration and new mission fields close to home

    • Moving beyond one-size-fits-all planting models

    • Bivocational ministry, social entrepreneurship, and sustainability

    • Character over charisma in church planting leadership

    • Grief, failure, and resilience in ministry

    • Discipleship as the true measure of fruitfulness

    Len Tang is the Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, and has planted two churches: Cedar Creek Church in Sherwood, Oregon, and Missio Community Church in Pasadena, CA. He received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from UC Berkeley and an MDiv from Fuller Seminary. He is married to Amy and they have three young adult boys, a cat, and an electric motorcycle.

    Mentioned Resources:

    🌐 Fuller Website: churchplanting.fuller.edu

    🌐 Website: Faithful Resistance.com

    📱 Len's Instagram & FB: @len.tang

    🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tim Morey

    🎧 Episodes Referenced: Nick Warnes

    🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dwight Zscheile

    Connect with Future Christian:

    📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/

    📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/

    📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/

    🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/

    Supporting Sponsors:

    Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.

    Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!

    Future Christian Team:

    Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

    Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

    Dennis Sanders – Producer

    SEO / Keywords

    Len Tang, church planting, Fuller Seminary church planting initiative, missional church, discipleship and mission, global migration and church, bivocational ministry, church growth vs faithfulness, church planter formation, character over charisma, failure in ministry, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

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    51 mins
  • Embracing the Mixed Ecology: Dwight Zscheile and Blair Pogue on the Church’s Future
    Feb 3 2026
    What if the future of the church isn’t found in choosing between old and new—but in learning how both can flourish together? In this episode, Loren is joined by Dwight Zscheile and Blair Pogue for a wide-ranging conversation about their book, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, and what it means to form Christian communities in a changing world. Drawing on their experience in congregational leadership, theological education, and diocesan innovation, Dwight and Blair make the case for a mixed ecology of church—where inherited congregations, new communities, fresh expressions, digital ministry, and lay-led initiatives work together to embody the gospel. Rather than dismissing institutions or chasing quick fixes, the conversation emphasizes discipleship, listening to neighbors, and adapting church forms without abandoning the substance of the faith. The episode also explores why activism alone cannot sustain Christian identity, how polarization distorts formation, and why the church must recover practices that shape people into a distinct way of life centered on Jesus. Topics Include What a “mixed ecology” of church actually means Why inherited churches still matter—and where they fall short Fresh expressions, microchurches, and lay-led ministry Discipleship vs. political or cultural substitutes for faith Listening as the starting point for mission Digital ministry as doorway, not replacement When and how churches may need to end faithfully The Rev. Dwight Zscheile, Ph.D. is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology: Inherited and New Forms of Christian Community Flourishing Together (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress, 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the Church in America (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans, 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012) and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025). A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), he has served congregations in Minnesota and Virginia. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world. The Rev. Canon Blair Pogue is the Canon for Innovation for the Episcopal Church in Minnesota. In that capacity she helps congregations all over the state go deeper in their practice of the Christian faith and rethink how they form disciples and engage the communities surrounding their church. She also runs learning communities for Episcopalians wanting to learn how to form Christian community with neighbors where they live, work, and play. Before joining Bishop Craig Loya’s staff she was the rector of St. Matthew’s Episcopal Church in St. Paul for 16 ½ years, and before that she served two churches in the Diocese of Virginia, with a special focus on Christian formation. She is a graduate of Luther Seminary (D.Min in Congregational Mission and Leadership), Yale Divinity School (M.Div), and Whitman College (B.A.). Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Embracing the Mixed Ecology 🌐 Dwight's Website: https://www.dwightzscheile.com/ 📧 Blair's Email: blair.p@episcopalmn.org 🎧 Episodes Referenced: William Harrison Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Dwight Zscheile, Blair Pogue, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, mixed ecology church, fresh expressions, inherited church, church innovation, post-Christian ministry, discipleship formation, lay-led ministry, digital church, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
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    51 mins
  • The Girl from Montego Bay: Rose Hudson-Wilkin on Faith, Calling, and Leadership
    Jan 27 2026

    What does it mean to remain faithful to a calling when the church itself says no?

    In this episode, Martha Tatarnic is joined by Rose Hudson‑Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, for a wide-ranging conversation rooted in her memoir, The Girl from Montego Bay.

    Drawing on her journey from a childhood in Jamaica to episcopal leadership in the Church of England, Bishop Rose reflects on poverty, belonging, the discovery of God’s love, and the clarity of call that sustained her through repeated rejection. She speaks candidly about racism in the church, the pressure of being “the first,” and the cost of leadership when institutions lag behind the Spirit.

    The conversation also explores motherhood and ministry, Scripture as a lived practice, faith in public life, and what Bishop Rose believes the church most urgently needs now: confident Christians who live their faith beyond the church door.

    This episode offers pastoral wisdom and spiritual encouragement for anyone discerning vocation, navigating institutional resistance, or seeking a faith marked by courage, joy, and love.

    Topics Include
    • Discerning a call without visible role models

    • Growing up poor without growing up diminished

    • Scripture as a source of belonging and confidence

    • Racism, representation, and leadership pressure

    • Motherhood and ministry as shared vocation

    • Why the church needs confident Christians now

    • Faith lived publicly, not defensively

    The Rt Revd Rose Hudson-Wilkin, CD, MBE was born and raised in Jamaica before coming to the UK to study. Ordained to the priesthood in 1994, in 2007 she was appointed as a Chaplain to Her Late Majesty the Queen and in 2010, became the first female appointed to the position of the 79th Chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons. In November 2019 she was consecrated as a Bishop in the Church of England and installed in Canterbury Cathedral. In May 2023, Bishop Rose was one of three female bishops to make history by playing a part in the coronation of King Charles lll. Her autobiography, ‘The Girl From Montego Bay’ was published in January 2025. Bishop Rose is in wide demand as a preacher and speaker undertaking engagements both nationally and internationally, as well as making regular appearances in the media.

    Mentioned Resources:

    📖 Her Book: The Girl from Montego Bay

    🌐 Facebook: Bishop of Dover

    🎧 Audiobook: Listen for Free

    Connect with Future Christian:

    📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/

    📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/

    📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/

    🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/

    Supporting Sponsors:

    Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.

    Future Christian Team:

    Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

    Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

    Dennis Sanders – Producer

    SEO / Keywords

    Rose Hudson-Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, Bishop in Canterbury, The Girl from Montego Bay, women in ministry, Black church leadership, calling and vocation, racism in the church, Church of England, confident Christians, faith and public life, memoir theology, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic

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    1 hr and 8 mins
  • Cross Before Resurrection: Josh Hayden on Remissioning the Church
    Jan 20 2026

    What does it mean to lead faithfully when change is unavoidable—and grief is real?

    In this episode, Loren is joined by Rev. Dr. Josh Hayden for a deeply honest conversation about remissioning churches and navigating loss. Drawing from his work with congregations across denominations—and from his own experience of profound personal grief—Josh reflects on what it means to embrace change that is rooted in love, sacrifice, and hope.

    Rather than treating renewal as a technical fix, the conversation explores remissioning as a discipleship-centered process that requires dying to old versions of ourselves so new life can emerge. Together, Loren and Josh wrestle with fear, resistance to change, the pace of transformation, and why churches often avoid the very practices that form people to live faithfully through loss.

    Josh Hayden is the cofounder and copresident of `Iwa Collaborative, which helps leaders fly high and and live low as they lead through change processes in their community. He runs remissioning trainings through `Iwa Collaborative across various denominational, non-denominational, and global networks. Hayden is the senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Ashland, Virginia. He has worked and led in nonprofit organizations, church plants, and established churches. He has a doctorate in leadership and organizational change from Duke Divinity School and is the author of Sacred Hope. He serves on the boards of numerous nonprofits, and he and his family live near Richmond, Virginia.

    Mentioned Resources:

    📖 His Book: Remissioning Church

    🌐 Website: `Iwa Collaborative

    🎧 Episode Referenced: Jack Shitama

    🎧 Episode Referenced: Angela Gorrell

    🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Root

    Connect with Future Christian:

    📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/

    📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/

    📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/

    🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/

    Supporting Sponsors:

    Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.

    Future Christian Team:

    Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

    Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

    Dennis Sanders – Producer

    SEO / Keywords

    Josh Hayden, remissioning churches, church renewal, church change, leading through grief, discipleship and change, pastoral leadership, Edwin Friedman, family systems theory, cross before resurrection, church revitalization vs remissioning, grief and faith, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

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    55 mins
  • The Hybrid Church: Michael Huerter on Worship in a Digital Age
    Jan 13 2026

    What does it mean to worship faithfully in a digital age when church participation is no longer limited to a physical room?

    In this episode, Loren is joined by Michael Huerter to talk about hybrid church, online worship, and how technology is reshaping participation in Christian life. Drawing from Michael’s experience in worship leadership and digital ministry, the conversation explores how the pandemic accelerated changes already underway and why worship has always involved mediation and technology. Loren and Michael discuss common assumptions about online participation, the pressure placed on worship leaders to produce spiritual experiences, and how hybrid models can expand access without reducing worship to consumption. Rather than treating digital worship as a temporary solution or a threat to embodiment, the episode examines how churches can think more carefully about participation, formation, and accessibility in a hybrid context.

    Topics include:

    • What “hybrid church” actually means

    • Why worship has always been mediated

    • Assumptions about online participation

    • Pressure on worship leaders to perform

    • Hybrid worship and accessibility

    This episode is a practical conversation for pastors, worship leaders, and church leaders navigating worship in a digital and hybrid age.

    Michael Huerter (PhD, Baylor University) is a pastor at Holmeswood Baptist Church in Kansas City, Missouri, where he leads worship and works to build community and connection. As a lifelong church musician and digital native, he is interested in engaging with and contributing to scholarship that bridges the gap between research and practical ministry.

    Mentioned Resources:

    📖 His Book: The Hybrid Congregation

    🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable

    🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Draper

    🎧 Episode Referenced: David Taylor

    🎧 Episode Referenced: The Pressure to Perform

    Connect with Future Christian:

    📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/

    📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/

    📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/

    🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/

    Supporting Sponsors:

    Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.

    Future Christian Team:

    Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

    Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

    Dennis Sanders – Producer

    SEO / Keywords

    Hybrid church, hybrid worship, online worship, digital church, worship technology, mediated worship, worship leadership, participation in worship, embodiment and accessibility, church after COVID, future of worship, Michael Huerter, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

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    59 mins