In this episode of Governance Futures, hosts Jamilya and Eugene speak with Isaac Patka about the evolving landscape of security in decentralized systems. Isaac Patka is a developer and founder in the Ethereum ecosystem specializing in security and compliance infrastructure. He is the co-founder of Shield3, which conducts incident response training through Wargames exercises for major DeFi and infrastructure protocols, performs operational security audits including multisig configuration and infrastructure reviews, and builds policy and compliance infrastructure specifically for stablecoin projects. Isaac is also a founding member and initiative lead at the Security Alliance (SEAL), an industry group of top researchers, auditors, developers, and lawyers working together to improve the security landscape of web3. Isaac brings a rare mix of technical insight and human awareness to Web3, exploring how culture, design, and attention failures shape the vulnerabilities of DAOs. The conversation dives into topics like proof of inattention, optimistic governance, and the hidden power of dispute resolution. Isaac shares stories from his work in white-hat hacking, DAO roasts, and wargaming—real-world simulations that help protocols identify weak points before hackers do. He also explains why paranoia is healthy in crypto, why multi-sigs often fail from social engineering rather than code, and how simple practices can drastically reduce risk. The episode closes with reflections on AI, security culture, and why the future of governance may look a lot like the past—council-driven, human-centered, and built on trust. Security Alliance (SEAL): https://www.securityalliance.org/ SEAL Frameworks: https://www.securityalliance.org/frameworks Wargames: https://www.securityalliance.org/wargames NounsDAO: https://nouns.wtf/ Timestamps: 00:00 – Cold start 00:56 – Introduction: Jamilya and Eugene welcome Isaac Patka 03:06 – Why everyone eventually gets phished: real-world hacks and human error 05:23 – The growing attack surface in decentralized ecosystems 07:42 – The birth of DAO Roasts: fact-checking decentralization claims 10:04 – NounsDAO and the challenge of decentralization with veto power 12:23 – White-hat hacking: testing governance systems responsibly 14:48 – Defining white-hat vs. gray-hat ethics in crypto 17:07 – How security gray zones blur the line between defense and offense 19:24 – The LampDAO experiment: voting to turn a real-world light on and off 21:47 – DAO governance meets physical reality and off-chain limits 24:07 – “Proof of inattention” as a governance failure mode 26:31 – Delegates, fatigue, and the limits of direct democracy 28:54 – Why most voters copy trusted delegates without understanding proposals 31:15 – Guardrails and veto power: trade-offs in optimistic governance 33:36 – The real locus of power: dispute resolution and enforcement 35:55 – The origins of Security Alliance and the birth of WarGames 38:16 – Simulating incidents: chaos drills for DeFi protocols 40:42 – Threat modeling: finding vulnerabilities beyond smart contracts 43:01 – SEAL-911: the crypto emergency hotline 45:17 – Human trust in automated systems: staking and delegation 47:39 – Why protocols still underestimate operational risks 50:06 – Security culture: humans all the way down 52:30 – Paranoia as a governance virtue 54:51 – Practical safeguards: how to verify urgent messages and avoid scams 56:54 – AI in governance: new attack surfaces and security implications 59:19 – Overwarning fatigue and the limits of “Accept risk and sign” popups 01:01:35 – Access control and permission boundaries in multisigs 01:03:52 – How to stay safe: real-world scams and social engineering examples 01:08:34 – Long cons, fake grants, and deepfakes in the crypto world 01:12:59 – Vigilance without paranoia: staying human in security 01:15:22 – Physical safety, seed phrases, and low-profile best practices 01:17:43 – Crypto conferences, travel safety, and not standing out 01:19:59 – Security frameworks and starting points for learning 01:22:24 – What DAOs should fix first: access control 01:22:59 – Why decentralization is the most misused word in Web3 01:23:36 – The future of governance: humans, councils, and lessons from the past 01:24:15 – Closing thanks and outro

In this episode of Governance Futures, hosts Jamilya and Eugene speak with Dr. Joachim Schwerin. Joachim Schwerin is PhD economist, blockchain expert and privacy activist with 35 years of experience in academia, the public sector and metapolitical networks. He is also Principal Economist in the unit in charge of Responsible Business Conduct within the Directorate-General Internal Market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs (DG GROW) of the European Commission, where his current focus lies on developing positive framework conditions for DAOs and Web3. In the financial domain, he contributed to the EU’s Digital Finance Strategy, including the MiCA Regulation, and the preparatory work for the Digital Euro. The conversation moves from the historical roots of centralization to the potential of blockchain for rebuilding community-driven governance. Dr. Schwerin reflects on the balance between individual resilience and systemic change, the dangers of policy inertia, and how the digital domain allows people to preserve culture, identity, and solidarity in uncertain times. The episode closes with his message of hope: the future of governance lies in self-organized communities that act, not just talk. Timestamps: 00:00 – Cold Start 00:57 – Hosts Jamilya and Eugene introduce Dr. Joachim Schwerin 02:19 – Solidarity, privacy, and resilience — the themes of the episode 04:20 – How Dr. Schwerin entered blockchain and governance 06:14 – From self-organizing communities to centralized control 08:35 – Blockchain as a societal revolution and tool for liberation 10:56 – Politics, crypto, and the parallels between Web3 and global governance 12:36 – Prussia, identity, and the digital domain as a safe harbor 16:59 – Micronations, Liberland, and the history of experimental governance 19:12 – The rise of digital states and the competition of ideas 21:31 – Privacy and industrial competitiveness: the hidden connection 23:09 – Privacy as a foundation for self-organization and innovation 25:22 – How states misuse privacy narratives for control 27:39 – Why even corporations and governments rely on privacy tech 29:14 – Everyday privacy: practical ways to protect yourself 31:39 – What it means to be a “privacy activist” in daily life 34:02 – Trust, DAOs, and why real governance starts offline 36:22 – Generational change and the slow death of legacy systems 38:42 – Banks, surveillance, and standing your ground 41:17 – Activism through example: living privacy by doing 43:06 – The inner life of “the system” and finding allies in institutions 45:27 – Serving the nation vs. serving power: lessons from Prussian ethics 47:28 – The collapse of old systems and seeds of renewal 49:40 – Hope amid surveillance: resilience in restrictive environments 51:41 – Finding strength in solidarity and the legacy of values 56:05 – What triggers change: crisis, policy, and collective adaptation 58:28 – How every crisis pushes people toward decentralization 01:02:17 – Designing the next governance model: trade-offs and trust 01:04:37 – One person, one vote? Rethinking cooperative governance 01:06:57 – Generational shifts, innovation, and the inevitability of change 01:09:23 – The fear of death, the persistence of power, and legacy systems 01:12:00 – Overcoming division and starting change with one person 01:12:37 – Rapid-fire quiz: philosophy, integrity, and governance lessons 01:14:01 – Pitfalls of delay and the courage to act 01:15:31 – The future of governance: self-organized communities 01:16:10 – Closing thanks and outro