In this episode, Henry sits down with Hugh Massie, a serial entrepreneur and the founder of DNA Behavior, a behavioral data analytics company pioneering the intersection of psychology, decision-making, and financial behavior. Hugh has spent more than two decades building systems that decode how people think, communicate, and make choices—especially around money.

Resources Mentioned

DNA Behavior — https://dnabehavior.com

Behavioral Economics Today Podcast - https://www.youtube.com/@BehavioralEconomicsToday

Connect with Hugh on LinkedIn.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/hughmassie/

Episode: https://henryharrison.com/hugh-massie-dna-behavior/

From his beginnings in wealth management to leading a global behavioral-data company with operations across multiple countries, Hugh shares a remarkably candid look at entrepreneurship, leadership, people dynamics, and the future of AI-powered behavior insights.

If you’ve ever wondered how to truly understand people at scale—or even understand yourself better—this conversation will hit you right between the eyes.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode

• The Origin Story of DNA Behavior

How a wealth management firm led Hugh to realize that understanding a client’s behavior is just as important as understanding their finances—and how that became the foundation for a global psychometric and behavioral analytics platform.

• The Big Leap: From 2.5 Million to 275 Million Behavioral Profiles

Hugh explains the breakthrough moment when his team reverse-engineered their system using AI to digitally “scan” individuals’ behavioral patterns—no questionnaire required.

• Profiling People… Without the Profile

How DNA Behavior can now derive behavioral insights from public data using AI, why accuracy differs between traditional profiling and digital scanning, and where each method makes sense.

• Why Money Is the Ultimate Behavioral Trigger

Hugh shares fascinating examples of how people “flip” into instinctive behavior under pressure—especially when money and relationships are involved.

• A Story Every Entrepreneur Will Recognize

Hugh recalls two founders at war over a personal guarantee for a bank loan—and how behavioral insights helped them rescue their partnership, keep their company intact, and rebuild trust.

• Behavioral Economics in the Real World

From decoy pricing to communication misfires, Hugh breaks down why people make irrational decisions—and how truly personalized behavioral data can transform sales, leadership, and client experience.

• Building Behavioral Intelligence into Organizations

Learn how leadership teams, advisors, and even Fortune 100 companies use heat maps, dashboards, and matching tools to communicate more effectively, build trust, and improve performance across entire ecosystems.

• Leadership, Culture, and “Knowing Me, Knowing You”

Hugh talks about the DNA Behavior culture framework—Know, Engage & Grow—and why leaders must share their own profiles first if they want psychological safety, trust, or authentic communication inside the organization.

• How Hugh Built a Global Team Across Four Countries

A look inside DNA Behavior’s distributed team across Atlanta, Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, and Australia—and how Hugh keeps culture aligned across continents.

• Personal Growth, Empathy & the Journey from Numbers Guy to People Person

Burt Copeland, founder and CEO of New Life CFO, joins Henry Harrison to discuss how his near-collapse during the 2008 financial crisis became the catalyst for building one of the leading fractional CFO and outsourced accounting firms. Serving companies from roughly $2M to $80M in revenue, New Life CFO combines strategic CFO guidance with clean, decision-ready books—because even the best CFO is useless without accurate data.

New Life CFO: https://newlifecfo.com/

Episode: https://henryharrison.com/burt-copela...

The conversation is rich with real-world tools, client success stories, and the deeply personal faith journey that gave the company its name.

Key Takeaways

What New Life CFO Does

-Two-thirds of the business is fractional/outsourced CFO services

-One-third is outsourced accounting, controller, and accounting-manager support

-Focus: drive sustainable cash flow, EBITDA, and enterprise value

-Core belief: “Even a great CFO can’t make good decisions on bad information.”

Typical Clients

-Accounting services: $1M–$25M revenue

-CFO services: generally $5M–$80M revenue

-Rule of thumb: “As soon as I start looking like overhead, fire me.”

Philosophy

Your financial statements are nothing more than a historical reflection of your people, decisions, behaviors, processes, and systems. To permanently change the numbers, change one or more of those five drivers.

Burt’s 2008 Story

Grew a construction subcontractor from $7M to a $30M run rate. In April 2008, revenue fell 86% overnight when banks froze all construction lending. Lost $6–7M of personal net worth in months. The crisis produced both a business and faith epiphany that led him to sell the company and start New Life CFO with a mission to keep other entrepreneurs from stepping into the same “bear trap.”

Why “Operational CFOs”

Every CFO on the team has P&L ownership experience (GM, COO, or prior business owner) and has professionally “stubbed their toe” somewhere along the way—creating empathy, humility, and practical insight that pure finance backgrounds often lack.

During the darkest days of 2008, Burt prayed two questions:

“What do You want me to learn?” → Answer: “You’re not using My gifts, and you left Me behind.”

“Where do You want me to go?” → Answer: “Use My gifts and take Me with you.”

The company exists to use God-given financial and operational gifts to serve entrepreneurs in a God-honoring way through “Care-Frontational” (caring but direct) partnership. Diagnostic Services Offered Turning Sweat Equity into Gold – exit/life-after-business planning (personal vision → gap analysis → value-building roadmap)

Insight 29:11 – deep dive into structural EBITDA, cash flow, and value-creating vs. value-diluting revenue streams

PLANO, TX: Entrepreneurs, Business & Finance — Episode: Glenn Poulos on Building (and Rebuilding) Winning Sales Organizations

https://henryharrison.com/glenn-poulos/

Guest: Glenn Poulos

— founder, 3× company builder, LinkedIn Top Voice, author of Never Sit in the Lobby

Episode Snapshot

What we cover: Selling without being “that salesperson,” buying a business under non-competes, the power-utility pivot, recovering from a zero-to-hero-to-zero moment, enterprise deal strategy, and practical ways Glenn uses AI daily to win more bids.

Why listen: Glenn has built and sold companies across telecom and now power utilities. He’s candid about a painful, all-stock exit that went to zero—and exactly how he bounced back to $84M revenue before his next sale.

Quick Bio

Glenn sold GAP Wireless (telecom distribution) to private equity in 2022, then acquired Prog USA (power-utility test & measurement distributor) in January 2024 to stay clear of non-competes—switching tech (telecom → power), customers (telcos → utilities), and country (Canada → U.S.) while running the same style of business. He’s an active LinkedIn Top Voice and the author of Never Sit in the Lobby.

Key Takeaways

“Nothing happens until something gets sold.” Sales is the starting point of the value chain—and it’s a craft worth defending.

Customer-first systems win. Build repeatable ways to get, act, and stay in front of customers and be a “pleasure to do business with” even when you lose a deal.

Map the money machine. Learn how your customer actually makes money (e.g., some “hardware” firms are really finance companies).

Enterprise deals require altitude. Start at the highest relevant level; know exactly who signs at each $ tier.

Resilience is a skill. Glenn once sold for stock, got locked up, and watched it all go to zero—then founded a new company within days and grew it to $84M before selling.

AI as a force multiplier. Use AI to mine tenders, summarize 80-page contracts, craft (then humanize) outreach, and spot cash-flow patterns.

Standout Stories

The Dofasco Steel Mill “door-knock relay.” In 24 hours, Glenn and his president went from plant floor → Toshiba integrator → electrical distributor → VP approver and closed the largest order of his career, no emails, no quotes—just live, high-altitude selling.

The painful exit that reset everything. After a stock-only sale to a public company, Glenn became an insider, couldn’t sell, and lost everything when the acquirer imploded. He turned that failure into the launchpad for GAP Wireless, later sold to PE.

Favorite Lines

“Start and finish at the highest possible level relative to the size of the deal.”

“People want to buy—but not from a pain in the butt.”

“I call it poverty avoidance—it keeps me moving.”

Book: Never Sit in the Lobby — 57 sales tips to be “a pleasure to do business with.” https://www.amazon.com/Never-Sit-Lobb...

Connect with Glenn

Website: https://glennpoulos.com/

LinkedIn: / glennpoulos

Connect with Henry

Website: https://henryharrison.com/

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