In this episode, we talk with Rob Miller, co-founder of Bloodshot Records and author of The Hours Were Long, but the Pay Was Low. Rob shares stories from the early days of building an influential indie label, the realities of DIY music culture, and what it really took to survive on passion, community, and very little money. It’s an honest, funny look at the long hours behind independent music—and why it was all worth it.

Rob is a Detroit native so of course we discussed Disco Demolition Night (Rob has an interesting angle as a Tiger fan) and why Lou Whitaker is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Rob Miller's website: https://www.robmillerwriting.com/
Rob on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robmillerwriting/
Rob Miller's Bloodshot playlist: https://tinyurl.com/Bloodshot011226

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2026.

What's going on with Michigan football? Craig and Rex look at random baseball news. Also, the Hooks & Runs year-end music review, featuring our favorite albums of 2025.

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.

Joseph Natalicchio is the author of "Baseball's Most Outrageous Promotions: From Wedlock and Headlock Day to Disco Demolition Night" (McFarland 2025), released earlier in December. This is a wonderful book - we discuss everything from Disco Demolition Night to the night fans tore apart a ballpark while game played on to why baseball promotions have gotten so boring!

Joseph was a gracious guest and we hope you enjoy this chat.

Here is the link to the book at McFarland (link above):
https://tinyurl.com/promotions121125
...or buy the book at the affiliate link below.

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.

Big news about the podcast, a look at some early baseball moves and Guns & Roses is going on tour.

Errata: The Houston Astros missed the playoffs twice since 2015 - in 2016 and in 2025 - not once. Nacagdoches is a town in East Texas, home of Stephen F. Austin University. Guns & Roses' record label was Geffen, not Sony.

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.

Dave South was the radio voice of Texas A&M Athletics from 1985 to his retirement in 2018. He is the author of "You Saw Me on the Radio: Recollections and Favorite Calls as the Voice of Aggie Athletics" (Texas A&M Univ. Press 2019), which was released in paperback in August.

• "You Saw Me on the Radio" at Texas A&M Univ. Press
• 50s and 60s Rock & Roll with Dave South at KAMU
• More about Wounded Warrior Project

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.

This week on the podcast - a bizarre ending to a high school football game, the soon to be expired Collective Bargaining Agreement has baseball fans scrambling to learn about salary caps, and we open another set of baseball cards.

Errata: Greg Maddux finished his career with 355 wins. The pitchers named plus Warren Spahn and Kid Nichols had more. Tom Prince's "short career" lasted 17 manor league seasons, but Prince only played in 579 games. He managed in one game for the Pirates in 2019. Steve Lyons once famously slid into first base and to remove the dirt started removing his pants, until he remembered people were watching. Craig was thinking of Greg Harris, for some reason, of which there were two of which one (Greg A. Harris) was ambidextrous. Harris pitched both left and right handed in one game in 1995.

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.

Trenidad Hubbard played 10 Major League seasons in a 19-year professional baseball career. A Chicago native, Hubbard played college ball at Southern University, was drafted by Houston in the 12th round in 1986, and climbed through the ranks to make his Major League debut in 1993 with Colorado. We had a lot of laughs looking back on his career and were inspired by Trenidad's positive attitude and grateful spirit.

Trenidad's apparel company is GameFace USA. He is affiliated with the Players' Alliance, The Hank Aaron Invitational and the annual HBCU Swingman Classic on All-Star weekend.

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.

Bob Mitchell is a retired professor, award winning advertising creative and tennis teaching pro. He has published 13 books and countless essays and articles, including his most recent book, "Ralph Branca and the Meaning of Life" (McFarland Press 2025). Join us this episode as we take our time machine back to Coogan's Bluff, October 3, 1951, and the pitch that changed everything.

(Branca was the Dodger pitcher that thew Giant outfielder Bobby Thomson the fateful pitch that Thomson hit into the bleachers for a walk-off three-run home run that put the Giants into the 1951 World Series).

Bob Mitchell's website - https://www.bobmitchellbooks.com/home/

You can purchase "Ralph Branca and the Meaning of Life from the publisher, McFarland Press, from any boodstore or online book seller, or from our affiliate link at bookshop.org below.

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.