With its eco-friendly paper towels, diapers, and cleansers, Seventh Generation was one of the first—and most successful—green household brands to hit the market. But in the early 1990s, its two founders had a bitter falling out.

Alan Newman and Jeffrey Hollender have barely spoken since that time, but they both agreed to come on the show to talk about the business they were both passionate about, and the delicate nature of partnership.

What you'll learn:

• Why Alan says his great strength—and his greatness weakness—is his tendency to say “yes.”
• How Jeffrey and Alan lost their friendship and business partnership after only three years.
• How Jeffrey grew Seventh Generation into a household name—and then got fired.
• How two formerly estranged partners feel about partnership now.

Timestamps:

5:30 - Jeffrey makes it big in Canada selling adult-learning courses… before he’s forced to leave the country

11:50 - Alan moves to Vermont on a whim, and winds up in a mail-order catalog business

24:31 - Alan and Jeffrey meet for the first time and find common ground: Alan needs capital and Jeffrey has it

30:13 - An atypical office for 1989: Ping pong table, nap room, and employees get prizes when they make mistakes

40:35 - Crisis hits… and tears Alan and Jeffrey’s friendship apart

45:41 - Jeffrey sends Alan a “Dear John” letter, and Alan leaves the company

50:00 - Seventh Generation grows to new heights… then Jeffrey is fired as CEO

82:56 - Jeffrey and Alan reflect on why their partnership failed, and what it takes to have a good one

This episode was produced by Casey Herman with music by Ramtin Arablouei.

It was edited by Neva Grant.

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Today’s callers: Janell from Kentucky wonders how to build a sense of hospitality into her canned bourbon cocktail brand. Jade from South Carolina considers the upsides and risks of shipping her smoked salmon directly to customers. And Bar from Colorado considers strategies for bringing his protein-packed cous cous to quick service restaurants.

Plus Danny talks about the elements of a strong company culture as described in his new book, What Could Possibly Go Right?

Thank you to the founders of Ponyboy Slings, Angel Oak Smokehouse, and Boostcous for being a part of our show.

If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.

And be sure to listen to Shake Shack’s founding story as told by Danny on the show in 2020.

This episode was produced by Chris Maccini with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Jimmy Keeley.

You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com and on Substack.

Brian Rudolph started making chickpea pasta in his Detroit apartment because wheat made him feel sick. A decade later, Banza was in more than 25,000 stores, and today, it’s one of the most popular pasta brands in the country. Success was not automatic: The business barely got off the ground because the cooked pasta was turning to mush—and as Banza became known for its health benefits, a food-safety scare sent sales plunging by 30%.

In this episode, Brian explains why he was inspired to create a whole new category, how he turned chickpea skeptics into fans, and how the company rebuilt trust after a public relations disaster.

What you’ll learn

• How Brian and his brother Scott launched Banza with only $100,000.
• How they learned to stop chasing perfection and to ship something that was “good enough.”
• How crowdfunding and reality TV helped Banza land its first retail accounts.
• How packaging can become an important growth engine for a new brand.
• How transparency can rebuild trust after a PR debacle–but can’t restore it overnight.

Timestamps:

05:50 - Brian uncovers the unexpected culprit behind his health issues: Wheat

07:27 - From Chewy bars and Chipotle to pasta made of… beans?

16:24 - Banza gets a big break on national TV

20:51 - The 192-store order that Banza wasn’t ready for, and why retreating to a smaller manufacturer helped them meet it

26:12 - Banza’s first production run turns to mush when cooked. The solution? “Steep it like tea”

34:04 - The origin of the distinctive orange box

39:13 - Pizza anyone? Banza expands into thousands of stores and launches new products

41:00 - The food safety scare that Brian never saw coming

52:13 - Even in the midst of a crisis, Brian says to “assume positive intent”

This episode was produced by Katherine Sypher, with music by Ramtin Arablouei.

Edited by Neva Grant, with research help from Kerry Thompson. Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez.

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