What happens when a student becomes so engaged with an online course that the company accidentally hires their own best case study?

Meet Quinn Palmer, who took a Growclass growth marketing course 4.5 years ago, became deeply involved as a community volunteer, and now leads the very marketing team that once targeted her as a customer.

As Senior Manager of Growth Marketing at Growclass, she's living proof of her company's promise: 83% of graduates get promoted or land new jobs within six months.

In this episode, Charlene Ormo explores Quinn Palmer's full-circle journey from freelancer seeking upskilling to marketing leader.

They dive into how Quinn's student experience shapes her marketing philosophy, why she calls Growclass 'a friendship company cosplaying as education,' and the exact community-building strategies that transformed her career trajectory twice."

If you're wondering how authentic community building can drive both personal growth and business results, Quinn breaks down the exact playbook.

Today, Charlene sits down with someone who's mastered the art of blending strategy with soul in an increasingly metrics-obsessed world. Quinn Palmer is the Senior Manager of Growth Marketing at Growclass, former growth marketer at Interval, and host of the "Say It, I Dare You" podcast. But what sets her apart isn't just her ability to move numbers---it's how she builds authentic community while hitting aggressive KPIs and refuses to sacrifice human connection for conversion rates.

They dive deep into everything from Quinn's "friendship company cosplaying as an education company" philosophy to why she fires underpaying clients (thanks to community support), to how organizing Christmas parties translates directly to growth marketing success. Plus, the simple truth that changed everything: "It's not that serious."

If you've ever wondered how to balance authentic relationship building with data-driven results while maintaining the heart that got you into marketing in the first place, this 42-minute conversation is pure gold.

• Hosts "Crossover Episodes" in Real Life - Her term for mixing different friend groups at parties, which is exactly how she approaches community building at work.
• Got Hired by Her Own Case Study - Jokes that Growclass "accidentally swiped their best case study" when they hired her---she was such an engaged community member that they made her the person running the community.
• Works at a "Friendship Company Cosplaying as Education" - Her exact description of Growth Class, where community members become genuine friends who attend each other's weddings.
• Needed Five Strangers to Fire a Bad Client - Brought her people-pleasing struggle to a Solo Marketers Club where people she'd just met spent an entire hour convincing her she deserved better rates.
• Has a Favorite Food Philosophy for Sales - Believes you're more likely to close a deal by asking someone about their favorite dumplings than by pitching your product first (her favorite answer: any type of dumpling, anywhere, anytime).

"You don't make relationships with people to get things from them. You make the relationships to be able to give things to them." - Quinn Palmer

[02:30] - Beyond the LinkedIn titles: Who Quinn is as a wife, partner, friend, and community builder at her core.

[08:15] - The superpower of organizing: How the same skills that plan family Christmas translate to building marketing communities that drive revenue.

[14:45] - From cold corporate to warm community: Why Growclass showed her marketing doesn't have to be slimy or purely...

Ever wonder what it looks like to turn vulnerability into your greatest business asset while building brands that feel like conversations with your best friend?

Today, Charlene sits down with someone who's not just building marketing campaigns—she's building movements rooted in authentic storytelling and human connection. Hurriyeh Iftikhar is the founding marketing lead at Siena AI, former marketing leader at LiveLike, and a proud Pakistani-Canadian who landed every major job through shameless cold outreach. But what sets her apart isn't just the tech—it's how she calls herself "the most fortunate person in the room" and believes the universe conspires to help you achieve your dreams.

They chat about everything from Hurriyeh's grandfather's challenge that changed her life to why her hands still shake before presentations (despite everyone calling her confident), to how visualization and team psychology turned an "impossible" campaign into their biggest success.

If you've wondered what it means to bring your whole self to work while navigating constant change, this conversation is for you.

Meet Hurriyeh Iftikhar — In 5 Fun Facts

• Landed Every Job Through LinkedIn DMs - Has never gotten a major position through traditional applications. Every opportunity started with a cold message saying what she loves about the brand and what they're doing wrong.
• Still Gets the Shakes Before Presentations - Despite being called "confident" by everyone, admits her hands tremble before every important call or presentation. She's just learned to mask it over time.
• Printed Success Mantras for Her Team - Asked team members how they'd feel achieving an impossible goal, then had "I'm a f*cking genius" graphics printed for everyone when they hit 39,280 leads instead of the client's 15,000 target.
• Her Professional and Personal DISC Were Identical - Was the only leader at Sienna AI whose work and personal personalities matched almost exactly. Refuses to have an "on/off" button for different personas.
• Dreams in Econometrics Stories - Turned advanced econometrics into storytelling by viewing numbers as narratives about the future and past, making her feel like she has "superpower to see what's coming."

"There's power in being yourself and being authentic and being vulnerable. It's not your weakness. It actually helps you be more proud of who you are." - Hurriyeh Iftikhar

[00:07:15] - The grandfather's challenge: The conversation that changed everything—from comfort in Pakistan to chasing dreams in Canada.

[00:12:30] - Brutal job rejection reality: How graduating with honors led to crushing rejections and what her grandfather taught her about jumping pads.

[00:19:45] - The shameless cold email strategy: Being brutally honest about what you love and what they're doing wrong in outreach messages.

[00:23:40] - The COVID career pivot: Working with Pakistani startups during lockdown and how the universe conspired to bring her back to Canada.

[00:28:45] - The 45,000 lead campaign psychology: How visualization, team mantras, and reverse engineering turned impossible into achievable.

[00:32:15] - The LAQS methodology: Listen, Audit, Quantitative analysis, Systematize, Scale—her framework for every decision.

[00:35:20] - Hands still shake confession: The vulnerability behind the confidence everyone sees and why authenticity is her superpower.

[00:38:15] - Brand philosophy revolution: Why brands should hold candles instead of megaphones and ask "How was your day?"

[00:42:30] - Following passion vs. auditing passion:...

Ever wonder what happens when a seasoned Amazon executive trades corporate chaos for toddler tantrums—and discovers it makes him a better marketing leader?

Today, Charlene sits down with someone who's mastered the art of authentic storytelling in an AI-saturated world. Brent Brooks is the Director of Marketing at Texada Software, former Amazon Principal Product Marketer for Alexa Smart Home, and a father of two who took an 8-month career break to focus on fatherhood. But what sets him apart isn't just his tech pedigree—it's how he applies parenting wisdom to marketing strategy and refuses to let his team become "toddlers" while still guiding them like a lighthouse.

They dive deep into everything from Brent's physical ritual of switching to an analog watch each night (his Mr. Rogers moment) to why he tells marketers to "kill your darlings," to how teaching his daughter to cut her nails revealed everything wrong with his leadership style. Plus, the shipping container analogy that simplified Amazon's most complex smart home technology.

If you've ever wondered how to balance authentic storytelling with data-driven results while maintaining work-life boundaries that actually work, this 44-minute conversation is pure gold.

• Has a Physical ‘Mr. Rogers’ Ritual - Switches from Apple Watch to analog watch every evening at 5:30pm, leaves all devices downstairs, and asks his kids "How was your day?" to mentally transition from work mode to dad mode.
• Took 8 Months Off for Fatherhood - Left his Amazon role to be a full-time dad, which taught him patience and how to "guide the ship but let them sail it" with his marketing team.
• Calls Himself a Professional Storyteller - Been listed as "storyteller" in his LinkedIn profile for years and believes you're getting old when you tell the same stories repeatedly—so he actively seeks new adventures.
• Mastered the Shipping Container Analogy - Simplified Amazon's complex Matter smart home standard by comparing it to global shipping logistics, making technical concepts accessible to everyone.
• Learned Leadership from Nail Clipping - Realized he doesn't remember when he started cutting his own nails as a kid, which taught him to let his team struggle and learn rather than doing everything for them.

"You don't know if I'm real until you meet me in person. And so taking that stance means I have to be hyper vigilant in all of my campaigns to make sure I'm leveraging something real." - Brent Brooks

[00:02:30] - The storyteller identity: Why Brent calls himself a storyteller first and how new adventures prevent boring repeated stories.

[00:08:15] - Falling into marketing accidentally: From Econ/Poly Sci degree to discovering the dopamine rush of successful campaigns and real-time analytics.

[00:14:45] - Balancing creativity with data: The modern attribution challenge and why you have to trust your story will resonate over time.

[00:18:20] - Career journey strategy: From local automotive to global Amazon—each step building on the previous skillset.

[00:25:30] - Texada's growth engine philosophy: Selling "through to" the customer that matters and competing on growth paths, not features.

[00:29:15] - The authenticity crisis: Fighting AI content noise with face-to-face events and real customer stories.

[00:32:45] - The analog watch boundary ritual: Physical separation techniques and the Mr. Rogers mentality for work-life transitions.

[00:36:20] - Eight months of fatherhood lessons: How parenting taught patience and the "guide but let them sail" leadership...

Ever wonder what it looks like to lead with both data and deep humanity across decades of tech evolution?

Today, Charlene sits down with someone who's not just led multi-million and billion-dollar businesses—he's guided thousands of humans through waves of technological change that reshaped entire industries. Charles Stucki is the Head of Marketing at Neeve, former VP at Cisco, and ex-McKinsey partner. But what sets him apart isn't the titles—it's how he calls himself "the Forrest Gump of tech" and speaks six languages just to connect deeper with people around the world.

They chat about everything from Charles's "get it right this time" philosophy to why he thinks ChatGPT is disrupting marketing in ways no one's talking about yet, to how watching Mary Poppins taught him to be a better father to four daughters.

If you've wondered what it means to stay humble while navigating constant change, this conversation is for you.

Meet Charles Stucki — In 5 Fun Facts

• Witnessed PCs the Size of Suitcases - Used laptops that were literally suitcase-sized at Arthur Andersen doing audits with scissors and brass brads before computers changed everything.
• Learned Italian for a Cruise - Decided he wanted to talk to locals on a 12-day Italy trip, so he taught himself Italian in two months. Now speaks six languages total.
• Swears by Mary Poppins for Parenting - Tells every father to watch this Disney movie to understand how to raise kids. Used it as his guide for raising four daughters successfully.
• Practices Languages Every Single Day - Has a daily routine where he practices one language every day and cycles through all six every week. It's his version of staying human while working.
• Thinks ChatGPT Broke Marketing - Believes AI replacing Google search will destroy everything marketers know, but admits nobody has figured out how to game ChatGPT rankings yet.

"I want to do the right thing in the right way, and rather than trying to have been right all along, I want to get it right this time."- Charles Stucki

[00:02:15] - The goldfish athlete philosophy: Charles's core principle of learning from the past but clearing your mind to focus on present reality.

[00:06:30] - Treating people as partners, not competitors: How viewing colleagues and clients as neighbors rather than threats transforms leadership.

[00:12:45] - The art of selective listening: Why Charles won Cisco's collaboration award and how to listen to understand, not confirm.

[00:18:20] - Leading on two teams simultaneously: Managing up to boards while leading down to thousands of employees.

[00:25:40] - The Forrest Gump of tech: How Charles witnessed every major tech wave from PCs to AI without being the cause.

[00:32:15] - Navigating waves of change: Three principles for staying informed during rapid technological transformation.

[00:38:50] - The ChatGPT marketing disruption: Why search replacement threatens everything marketers know about reaching customers.

[00:44:25] - The Groundhog Day language philosophy: How watching Bill Murray led to learning six languages and becoming a better human.

[00:48:30] - Mary Poppins parenting wisdom: What every father can learn about structure, affection, and adventure from a Disney classic.

3 Key things you can apply today

1. Listen to understand, not confirm. Before any important decision, ask yourself: "Am I listening to validate what I already think, or am I genuinely trying to understand something new?" Seek out people who challenge your...

Ever wonder what happens when someone actually builds operations around people instead of the other way around?

Today, Charlene sits down with someone who's not just building better companies—he's rethinking how people experience work itself. Max Trudel is the COO and co-founder of Evolia, a company reshaping how businesses approach scheduling, time management, and the human side of operations.

Beyond the title, Max is a university lecturer and radio host, and what sets him apart isn't just what he does or what he builds, it's how he builds it. With heart, with intention, and with a deep respect for the humans behind every metric.

They chat about everything from Max's early days saying yes to random opportunities, to the hard conversations that come with scaling a team, to why he still visits customers in person.

If you've wondered what it really means to design a workplace that puts people first, this conversation is for you.

Meet Max Trudel — In 5 Fun Facts

• The Corner Office Kid - While other kids played with toys, Max grew up literally in the corner of his dad's entrepreneurial office. This explains why spreadsheets and business plans feel more natural to him than most people's childhood bedrooms. DNA-level entrepreneurship is real, folks.
• The Pandemic Radio Rebel - When COVID locked everyone behind screens, Max's solution? Start a radio show to meet "real people in real life." Because apparently Zoom fatigue hits different when you're used to being a people person. His cure for digital isolation was going analog.
• The Side-Gig Professor - Most university lecturers tell students to focus on studies. Max actively encourages his students to launch side businesses—then sometimes hires them later. It's like career matchmaking but with extra homework and entrepreneurial chaos.
• The ‘Yes Man’ Evangelist - Max took the Jim Carrey movie "Yes Man" as a life philosophy, not entertainment. He says yes to opportunities first and figures out how they connect later. Spoiler alert: they always connect, just not how you'd expect.
• The SaaS Field Trip Leader - While most SaaS founders worship metrics from their desks, Max actually visits customers to watch them use his product in real life. He wants to see people's faces when they interact with his software, not just their usage statistics.

[00:02:30] - Max's entrepreneurial DNA: Growing up in his dad's office and the natural pull toward entrepreneurship that shaped his entire approach to business.

[00:06:45] - The power of saying yes: How saying yes to seemingly disconnected opportunities creates unexpected career connections and growth.

[00:12:20] - Finding balance as co-founders: The natural division between product and sales that allowed Evolia to grow in a balanced way from the start.

[00:18:10] - Operations as human empowerment: Max's unique perspective on operations being fundamentally about removing friction for people.

[00:23:40] - The empathy of difficult decisions: How firing people with empathy can actually be an act of care for both the individual and the team.

[00:28:15] - Scaling without losing innovators: Keeping problem-solvers and creative thinkers engaged as your company specializes and grows.

[00:35:20] - Partnership communication secrets: Why most agency relationships fail and how to build true partnerships with external...

What if the marketer who's visited 39 countries has discovered the secret to building teams that thrive across time zones and cultures?

Aimen Chouchane went from government advisory to leading marketing at Uptick, serving the fire protection industry across four continents. While other marketers chase generic SaaS playbooks, Aimen discovered his niche audience doesn't live on LinkedIn all day—they're out in the field keeping buildings safe.

Want to know the Wi-Fi research trick that saved his biggest deal? Or how a portable second screen revolutionized his work-travel balance? Aimen shares both.

But wait until you hear about Uptick's mission-driven approach—a company that actually helps keep people safe rather than just peddling software. The philosophy? You'll discover why Aimen refuses to work anywhere that doesn't make the world better.

This isn't your typical marketing interview about funnels and attribution. Discover how a leader blends Tunisian heritage, British pragmatism, and global perspective into marketing strategies that actually work for real people doing real jobs.

"You really can't be a marketer in 2025 if you're not using data... but you still have to use some gut instincts and make some creative calls."

- Aimen Chouchane

• The Country Collector - At 38 turning 39, Aimen's obsessed with keeping his travel count above his age. Currently at 39 countries, he's racing against time—literally. One pandemic slip-up and he was behind, but now he's back on track and plotting his next passport stamp.
• The Wedding Deal Maker - Forget LinkedIn networking events. Aimen's biggest career move happened with a beer in hand at someone's wedding. One friend's startup pitch over cocktails turned into eight years of SaaS marketing madness across four continents.
• The Istanbul Internet Survivor - Nothing teaches you Wi-Fi paranoia like getting yelled at by your boss during a dropped Zoom call. Now Aimen stalks Booking.com reviews searching for "wifi" mentions before booking anything. Turkey taught him the hard way that great download doesn't mean great upload.
• The Rio Sunset Enforcer - Most people say "work-life balance." Aimen says "work until Rio sunset, then beach." His productivity hack? Hard stops that force you to actually finish things instead of pretending to work until midnight.
• The Time Zone Referee - Managing Aussies, Brits, and Americans means someone's always awake and wanting to Slack you. Aimen's solution? Aggressively telling people to stop working after hours because apparently being a good boss means being the productivity police.

[02:30] The Global Marketing Advantage

How traveling to 39 countries transformed Aimen's understanding of customers and cultures. While other marketers rely on personas, Aimen draws from real human experiences across continents to build marketing that resonates with actual people, not demographic data.

[08:15] The Accidental SaaS Journey

From politics degree to government advisory to tech policy consulting, Aimen's career took an unexpected turn when LinkedIn became a client. The revelation that massive companies started as "ideas on a whiteboard" sparked his obsession with early-stage chaos and building something from nothing.

[15:20] Mission-Driven Marketing at Uptick

Why Aimen chose to market fire protection software instead of chasing trendy consumer apps. Uptick keeps public buildings safe by helping companies manage thousands of assets digitally—work that actually matters beyond quarterly metrics and vanity growth.

[20:45] Marketing as Science + Art

Aimen's philosophy on...

What if the CMO who calls himself "just a simple guy" has cracked the marketing code that's stumping industry leaders?

Christian Kunkel went from asking "What's a GRP?" to leading Fingercheck through the saturated payroll software market. While other CMOs chase growth hacks, Christian discovered customers were finding them through ChatGPT — not Google or ads. This revelation completely shifted his team's approach to customer discovery.

In this episode, Charlene Ormo interviews Christian Kunkel, a strategic mind who's not just building marketing systems, but reshaping how small businesses thrive. As CMO of Fingercheck, he's leading the charge in making payroll, HR, and financial flexibility accessible for the people who power our economy. But beneath the strategy is a mission rooted in empathy, resilience, and hard-won lessons.

This isn't your typical CMO interview about funnels and attribution. Discover how a marketing leader cut through the noise by returning to what most of us forgot — and the tactics making it work today.

• The GRP Mystery Detective - Day one in marketing: "Go fill a box with GRPs." Christian spent hours wandering the office asking "What's a GRP?" only to discover it was an elaborate prank.
• Jets Obsession Level: Maximum - This die-hard Jets fan believes if they win a Super Bowl in his lifetime, his legacy is complete (right after being a great dad and husband).
• The Support Call Crasher - While other CMOs chose strategy meetings, Christian secretly joins customer support calls for raw marketing gold you can't find anywhere else.
• Comic Book Marketing Genius - Christian literally drew a comic book to explain boring location data because apparently PowerPoints weren't cutting it. Did it generate millions? Of course not. Did customers think it was amazing? Absolutely. Because sometimes the best marketing ideas sound completely ridiculous until they work.
• The Homebody with a Famous Wife - Married to a Jennifer Lopez (not that Jennifer Lopez), Christian prefers quiet nights at home over the hustle and bustle. While the world chases the spotlight, he's found his superpower in the comfort of his living room.

[01:23] The Simplicity Superpower

Why Christian's approach to breaking down complex problems is his secret weapon in a world of marketing complexity. While other CMOs get lost in sophisticated frameworks, Christian's "simple guy" method cuts through the noise to find solutions that actually work.

[06:02] The Mentorship Multiplier

How the right guidance transformed Christian's career and why he's obsessed with paying it forward. Christian reveals the specific advice that changed everything for him and how he's using it to build unstoppable marketing teams.

[07:13] The Support Call Gold Mine

How secretly listening to customer support calls gives Christian marketing insights that million-dollar research can't buy. While other CMOs stay in their ivory towers, Christian gets on the frontlines to hear what customers really think.

[09:00] The "Feel Smarter" Formula

Christian's counterintuitive definition of good marketing that most CMOs get backwards. Instead of overwhelming prospects with features, he discovered the psychological trigger that makes customers want to buy without feeling sold...

Ever wonder if the key to SaaS success isn't about chasing every new growth hack, but about getting back to basics? Things like showing up, leading by example, and never forgetting that at the end of the day, people buy from people?

That's exactly what Charlene Ormo explores in this episode of Humans Behind the Metrics with Scott Nazdan, Vice President of Product Marketing and Strategic Communications at Panopto. Scott is a seasoned marketing and sales leader who calls himself a "player-coach," and he lives by one core belief: genuine human connection is the foundation of everything.

Scott's journey is truly inspiring. He took Ensemble Video from its early "guerrilla marketing" days in 2007 all the way to a successful acquisition by Panopto in 2020. Imagine a 15-year ride, pushing through constant market education, competitive battles, and the challenge of being ahead of the curve in a market that didn't even realize it needed video management solutions yet!

But here's why Scott's story stands out: He's not just another SaaS executive with a typical "hockey-stick" growth narrative. As a former Division I baseball athlete, he brings that same competitive fire, team-first mentality, and "practice when nobody's watching" work ethic to every single business challenge.

Now at Panopto, he's scaling those very principles, skillfully balancing the raw entrepreneurial hustle with the structure needed to compete in the big leagues. And if that's not enough, he's also a digital marketing professor at Syracuse University and hosts the "Learning Never Stops" podcast. He's someone who genuinely believes the best leaders are right there in the trenches with their teams.

If you're grappling with how to blend your instincts with established systems, maintain your raw drive within a corporate framework, or scale your business while keeping that personal touch, this conversation is your essential playbook.

"There is no secret pill for being great. It really is very simple in sports and in business. It's about the values and how you lead and how you operate daily and consistently. And that usually just means leading by example."

- Scott Nazdan

• The Division I Dreamer. Scott spent years dedicated to baseball, becoming a Division I athlete with professional aspirations — until his body and reality taught him that his real playing field would be business, not baseball.
• The Accidental Entrepreneur. Started in K-12 education, taught himself web design and video production, and stumbled into solving a massive problem in higher education that would become his life's work for 15 years.
• The Digital Deal: How Scott Nadzan Signed Away Ensemble Video with 75 Clicks During COVID. After 15 years of building Ensemble Video, Scott "sold" his company by clicking DocuSign file 75 times during COVID — no handshakes, no champagne, just digital signatures and tears of accomplishment.
• The Professor-Practitioner. While building and scaling his company, Scott has been teaching digital marketing at Syracuse University, staying connected to the next generation of marketers and keeping his skills sharp.
• The 4 AM Warrior. Scott's morning routine starts at 4-5 AM, getting ahead of the day to be productive and ready to serve others when "the bullets are flying" during business hours.

[00:02:54] The Sport of Business Mindset:

How Scott's Division I baseball background shaped his competitive business approach, applying sports values and Mark Cuban's "sport of business" framework to leadership. Greatness comes from consistent daily values and leading by example.

[00:10:38] Guerrilla Marketing for Startups:

Master the...