After twelve hundred episodes and sixteen years of conversations, I’ve heard a lot of smart ideas about marketing and sales. But every once in a while, one sticks with me. This one goes all the way back to the beginning, to a conversation with my very first and very frequent guest, Matt Nettleton.

It’s about sales, but not the pushy, fight-your-way-in kind. It’s about something much simpler and a whole lot more effective.

I sat down with Matt, a sales coach and founder of Sandler Training, to talk about what he calls “storming the castle.” And no, it’s not about medieval strategy. It’s about what most salespeople get completely wrong.

Here’s the shift that matters:

• Stop pitching, start asking Most sales calls fall apart because we lead with what we want to say. Matt flipped that on its head. When you ask thoughtful, structured questions, prospects don’t resist. They lean in and start talking.

• Questions are a discipline, listening is an art That line stuck with me. Great questions aren’t random. They’re planned. When you know where the conversation is going, you can actually listen instead of just waiting for your turn to talk.

• Guide the conversation, don’t force it Matt shared a simple flow. Start broad, narrow it down, and uncover the real issue. By the time you get there, the prospect has basically invited you in and handed you the problem to solve.

The big “aha” for me was this. You don’t have to fight your way into the conversation. If you do it right, they lower the drawbridge for you.

And honestly, that’s a lot more fun than storming the castle.