This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus sits down with Loretta J. Ross — activist, MacArthur Fellow, Smith College professor, and one of the most clear-eyed movement builders of the last five decades — to talk about her new book, Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel.

The conversation couldn't be more timely. With Democrats tearing each other apart in the run-up to the midterms and the left running on indignant anger, Ross offers something rarer and more useful than a hot take. From deprogramming white supremacists to teaching convicted rapists feminist principles, she's spent her career finding ways to reach people in order to build coalitions that win. Together, she and Marcus dig into the seductive pull of call-out culture, why purity politics is losing us elections we should be winning, and what it actually looks like to hold people accountable — with compassion, with strategy, and without burning your coalition to the ground.

Along the way, Ross gives us a pragmatic roadmap for winning, using the "truth, time, evidence and history" we already have on our side. It's a recipe for justice borne from a lifetime of hard-won wisdom, and it couldn't be more necessary for the moment we're in.

NOTE: this episode refers to sexual assault and rape. Please take care while listening.

Mentioned in the episode:

Trump bday party | Blanche canceled crybaby fund | WaPost Irizarry | Pulte BB&B conspiracy theories | Bedbugs invade administration | Charles Douglas III episode | Loretta Ross | Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel | 13th (2016) | Pancreatic cancer treatment breakthrough | The Sheltering Sky

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Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

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