Recorded live on the Journey of Jazz cruise, this episode of Jazz Cruises Conversations features an in-depth discussion on the legendary Dizzy Gillespie. Host Lee Mergner is joined by trumpeter Sean Jones and tap artist Brinae Ali to explore Dizzy’s physical trademarks, his deep spirituality, and his enduring influence on the evolution of jazz.

Key Takeaways

• The Myth of the Bent Trumpet: Sean Jones clarifies that while the most common story is that Dizzy sat on his instrument, the signature upward bend was purely cosmetic and did not change the sound of the horn.
• The Truth Behind the Cheeks: Dizzy’s iconic puffed cheeks were actually caused by a musculature disease that progressed over time, rather than incorrect playing technique.
• A Master Pedagogue: Despite his visual trademarks, Dizzy was a serious student and one of the greatest trumpet pedagogues in human history.
• Musical Versatility: Dizzy’s sound extended far beyond bebop; he lent his voice to everything from large orchestras to gospel and soul records like Soul’ed Out.
• Spirituality and Unity: A devout follower of the Bahá'í faith, Dizzy’s music—including his work with the United Nations Orchestra—was driven by a spiritual mission to bring people together.
• The "Dizzy Spellz" Project: Brinae Ali explains her "brainchild" project, which reimagines Dizzy’s music through the lens of Afrofuturism, incorporating tap dance and a turntablist to parallel the "good, bad, and ugly" of his times.
• Lorraine Gillespie’s Influence: Dizzy’s wife, Lorraine, was a professional tap dancer from Queens who played an instrumental role in his life and creative evolution.
• Spontaneous Composition: Jones describes improvisation not as "making stuff up," but as spontaneous composition where the musician uses years of harmonic awareness to create in real-time.
• The Lineage of Jazz: Jones argues there is no "separation" in the music, only extensions: Miles Davis is an extension of Dizzy, who was an extension of Louis Armstrong.

Sean Jones explains the history of jazz as a single, growing tree rather than a collection of separate plants. In this view, every new genre or legendary player is simply an "extension" of the same root system—where the sounds of the past, like those of Louis Armstrong, provide the essential nutrients for the "spontaneous compositions" of the future.

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• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

Lee Mergner hosted a Listening Party with Bria Skonberg who played tracks from her recent album, "What It Means," and then talked about the making of the recording. The album blends many different influences, but it has a decidedly New Orleans flavor thanks to contributions from Herlin Riley, Don Vappie and Ben Jaffe.

Send us a text

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

Host Lee Mergner interviews brothers Chris and Dan Brubeck during the sailing of The Jazz Cruise '25, where they provide a deep, intimate look at the life and immense legacy of their father, jazz legend Dave Brubeck. The conversation spans Dave Brubeck’s surprising upbringing as a ranch cowboy, his transformative experience leading an integrated army band during World War II, the controversial and vital history of the musical The Real Ambassadors, and the origins of their family's distinct approach to jazz. The episode also features tracks from recordings the brothers did with their father.

Key Takeaways

• Dave Brubeck’s Cowboy Roots: Dave Brubeck grew up working on a 45,000-acre ranch, where his father, Grandpa Pete, was the foreman. Dave’s musical ideas, such as thinking in seven or developing polyrhythms (like three against a certain time), were inspired by his ranch duties, such as riding a horse or listening to the one-stroke engines powering the water pumps for the cattle.

• The Real Ambassadors Project: Dave and Iola Brubeck, who were strong proponents of the civil rights movement, wrote the musical The Real Ambassadors to highlight the hypocrisy of segregation in the United States, especially since jazz musicians were touring globally representing American democracy.

• Star-Studded, Controversial Cast: Louis Armstrong, Carmen McRae, and the innovative vocal group Lambert, Hendricks & Ross starred in the recording. Louis Armstrong, who Joe Glazer (his manager) tried to protect from controversy, loved the character he played because it was closer to what he felt about racism but wasn't usually allowed to express publicly.

• The Monterey Regret: The musical was performed live only once, at the Monterey Jazz Festival, with the full cast. Dave Brubeck considered it one of his biggest regrets that a camera crew was prevented from filming the performance for a small fee, due to the interference of manager Joe Glazer, who wanted to wait for a major TV special.

• Integrated WWII Band: While serving as a rifleman in Patton’s army during World War II, Dave Brubeck was spotted playing piano in the mud. Colonel Brown pulled him from combat and tasked him with forming a band called the Wolfpack, specifically recruiting musicians who had been wounded (Purple Heart recipients). Due to their remote location and being "under the official radar," the Wolfpack was the first integrated band in the army.

• Iola Brubeck’s Lyrics: Dave's wife, Iola Brubeck, wrote the clever and politically relevant lyrics for The Real Ambassadors, as well as lyrics for many of Dave's other tunes, including "Ode to a Cowboy" and "My One Bad Habit".

• The Brubeck Waltz: Dave Brubeck and drummer Joe Morello innovated the jazz waltz by having the high hat play on every other beat (one, two, three, one, two, three) instead of the standard two and three. This allowed soloists, including Dave, to play in three, four, or halftime, and to stretch the time.

• The Disney Connection: Dave developed the album Dave Digs Disney (which included "Someday My Prince Will Come") after hearing Disney records softly through the wall from his children, Chris and Dan, who were listening to them while their father slept during the day.

Send us a text

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.