John is joined by one of the most famous litigators in the world, David Boies, Chairman and Founding Partner of Boies Schiller Flexner. They discuss David’s career, unique aspects of trial work, and the challenges of transitioning leadership in law firms. David describes his early years at Cravath, Swaine & Moore, LLP, where he became a partner in 1972, and his founding of Boies Schiller in 1997. He candidly discusses the aging process, especially the balance that exists between somewhat diminishing memory and the ever-improving judgment that comes with experience. Despite plans to step down as Chairman of his firm at the end of the year, David remains engaged in high-stakes litigation, particularly cases which may improve society, such as marriage equality and sex trafficking litigation. John and David also discuss trial advocacy. David believes that trials are both morality plays and peculiar searches for truth, shaped by a unique decision-making process that excludes jurors with specialized knowledge and forbids them from seeking knowledge in the ways they are accustomed to. They also discuss the unique pressures on courtroom lawyers, including the need to say everything right in real time, having a professional constantly trying to make you look bad, a jury that studies everything you say or do, and clients watching whose fortune or liberty depends on your performance. John and David also discuss the business of law, critiquing the hourly billing model and reflecting on the challenges of aligning client and firm interests in alternative fee arrangements. They agree that legal practice, while demanding, remains intellectually and personally rewarding. David also offers his thoughts on his late friend and sometimes adversary Ted Olson, whose integrity, warmth, and professionalism left a lasting impact. Finally, John and David discuss the possibility of a follow-up to David’s book Courting Justice, which chronicled significant cases from his career in light of the major cases he has had in the years since the book was published.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Robert Tyson and Cayce E. Lynch, both partners at Tyson & Mendes and Apex Defense Consulting. They discuss how defense lawyers can counter the recent rise in “nuclear verdicts.” Nuclear verdicts are extremely large jury awards, often in personal injury cases, in which pain and suffering or emotional distress awards are vastly disproportionate to economic damages. These verdicts are a key factor behind the recent, dramatic rise in insurance costs.

Over the past 15 years, plaintiffs’ lawyers have shifted tactics. While plaintiffs’ attorneys used to appeal to jurors’ sympathy for the plaintiff, they now focus on inciting juror anger against the defendant. Robert and Cayce obtained the trial transcripts from 100 nuclear verdict cases and carefully analyzed each case. They tracked 60 data points per case and concluded that defense lawyers frequently failed to respond effectively to plaintiffs’ shift to inciting anger in the jury.

Their research identified four strategies which, when used together, greatly reduce the risk of a nuclear verdict. First, defense counsel must personalize the defendant to create a connection between the people on the jury and the people working for the defendant.

Second, defense counsel must accept responsibility for some issue in every single case. Accepting responsibility helps take the anger out of the jury.

Third, counsel must give an alternative damages number to the plaintiff’s claim in every case. When defense counsel fails to give an alternative number, the jury will often award significantly more than the plaintiff asked for. A University of Iowa study also found that when the defense provides its own damages number, the likelihood of obtaining a defense verdict increases.

Finally, defense counsel must address the plaintiff’s non-economic damages such as pain and suffering. This should be done by presenting a message emphasizing the joys that remain in the plaintiff’s life. They should also emphasize the impact their alternative damages number could have on the plaintiff’s life.

None of the 100 nuclear verdict cases Robert and Cayce reviewed involved defense lawyers who employed all four of these strategies.

Robert and Cayce conclude by advocating for a broader sharing of best practices among defense counsel, noting that the plaintiffs’ bar has traditionally excelled in coordinating and sharing information and best practices.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Jennifer Prosek, Founder and Managing Partner of Prosek Partners, one of the world’s leading integrated marketing and communications firms. They discuss effective reputation and crisis management in high-stakes corporate and financial legal matters. Success in such matters often depends on maintaining a disciplined alignment between legal and communications teams. Despite today’s fast-paced media environment, both teams must develop a strategic plan and resist the pressure to react impulsively. Saying less can often be more effective, as premature or excessive public comments may create lasting reputational harm, even when the legal outcomes are ultimately favorable.

The output of large language models bearing on reputation can be shaped by proactively feeding the digital landscape, especially large language model AI systems, with positive, relevant content, particularly third-party media coverage. By doing so, companies can shape the narrative these systems generate. While influencing large language models is not fully understood, the importance of establishing ongoing, high-quality positive public engagement is clear.

In one case, Bridgewater’s controversial hedge fund culture was proactively reframed into a compelling public story. Rather than hiding or ignoring critical media narratives, the firm opted to control and shape its own messaging, resulting in a broader cultural conversation and the creation of a best-selling book. This example demonstrates how taking the “front foot” in communications may often transform perception and build long-term reputational value.

To “nail the narrative,” communications teams must distill a company’s essence into a concise and compelling story that resonates with customers, investors, and the media. Differentiating oneself from competitors, even if polarizing, is essential in today’s crowded communications landscape.

Finally, John and Jennifer discuss entrepreneurship, including the value of taking initiative, the power of simply asking for what you want, and the importance of connection and authentic human relationships in business.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi