In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, we chat with Katrina Kennedy—consultant, facilitator, and author of the new book, Learning That Lasts: Reflection Activities for Trainers and Designers.

Katrina shares her accidental start in L&D, which began when her manager at the District Attorney’s office needed someone to train new staff for a reorganization: “Katrina, you can talk,” she was told. Over the past 28 years on her own, she discovered her passion for helping new trainers and subject matter experts (SMEs) design and facilitate powerful learning experiences.

The Monumental Shift: It’s Not About You

Katrina reflects on her journey from unknowingly “telling” to intentionally facilitating. Like many trainers, she initially had the mindset of an empty vessel ready to be filled. The monumental shift came during a conference session where she witnessed participants deeply interacting. She realized, “This is about them”.

She reinforces that the number one rule of training is “It’s not about you”. This realization is freeing for SMEs, reducing their nervousness because they know the focus isn’t entirely on their performance. Instead, the goal is to impress the participants with their own discoveries.

The Critical Failure Point: Learning Transfer

Katrina joins the host in preaching the absolute importance of learning transfer. The host notes that training often fails after the classroom because the trainer considers their job done, and the manager assumes the training worked. If the training isn’t transferred to the field, performance isn’t improved.

Katrina emphasizes that transfer success begins before the training, by ensuring the learning is aligned with organizational needs and securing buy-in from managers and participants.

Common Transfer Failures:

* Running Out of Time: Trainers pack too much content and neglect the vital time needed for reflection.

* No Support: Pushing people out the door without follow-up, supportive nudges, or an accountability partner.

The Phlebotomist Test: Practice Over Content

To shake the mental model that training is only about the transfer of information, Katrina uses a memorable story:

If you are going to have blood drawn, do you want the phlebotomist to have a lot of content knowledge, or do you want them to have practiced and reflected on what they’re doing?

The clear answer (practice!) reinforces the need to give people time to practice and receive feedback.

Katrina’s book, Learning That Lasts, is a practical reference guide with research-backed reflection activities that help ensure learning transfers to the workplace.

Key Takeaways

* Rule #1: It’s not about you: The most profound shift for a trainer is realizing the job is to facilitate their learning, not show off your knowledge.

* Transfer is a Trainer’s Responsibility: If you slack on the transfer strategy, the entire training fails because you haven’t improved performance.

* Reflection is Not an Afterthought: Time must be intentionally designed into the session for practice and reflection.

* Practice is Paramount: Use the phlebotomist test to prove that practice and reflection are superior to content volume.

Katrina Kennedy’s Book and Contact:

* Book: Learning That Lasts: Reflection Activities for Trainers and Designers

* Contact: Connect on LinkedIn or visit katrinakennedy.com.

What if the most annoying part of a long hike—a pebble in your shoe—was actually your greatest asset as a trainer?

On this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, we welcome Jeff Weaver—director of training at J.J. Taylor Companies for 15 years and now founder of A Pebble in Your Shoe Consulting. Jeff is sharing his philosophy (and presentation title) that challenges how we think about behavior change and learning.

Jeff’s journey started at Polk County schools and took him through Disney and Target, experiences that shaped his unique approach to L&D. He argues that to get people to change their behavior, you need a catalyst for change—something that can’t be ignored. That, he explains, is the gift of the pebble.

Tune in to discover:

* The Power of Pleasant Uncomfortableness: How to intentionally design moments that force learners to stop and fix a problem.

* The Disney First Impression: Jeff shares a brilliant training technique he learned at Disney that uses a seemingly unprepared start to create a lasting, emotional lesson on preparation.

* Marketing Your Learning: Why L&D professionals should think of training like product marketers, using branding and jingles to create cultural touchstones that stick.

* The CEO Question: Are you worried about being “too silly” in front of executives? Jeff has a perfect answer for why you should facilitate for fun and effectiveness, no matter who’s in the room.

Don’t miss Jeff’s session, “The gift of the pebble in your shoe,” at the 2026 Training Conference and Expo, where he’ll also be running the Podcasting Lab.

Key Takeaways

* Pebble = Catalyst: A “pebble in your shoe” is a metaphor for a necessary, uncomfortable catalyst that forces behavior change.

* Emotion Drives Memory: Memorable training is often emotional and action-oriented, hitting a place beyond just logic.

* Branding Works: Use advertising and marketing techniques—like jingles and catchphrases—to make core concepts un-ignorable cultural touchstones that stick long after training ends.

* Challenge Traditional L&D: Broaden your view of training beyond traditional adult learning theories to incorporate the powerful tools of entertainment and marketing.

Jeff Weaver’s Consulting:

* A Pebble in Your Shoe Consulting

Join us on the latest episode of the Lessons from Learning Leaders podcast as we welcome back the master facilitator himself, Sardek Love! Sardek, author of Presentation Essentials and Speak for a Living, sits down to discuss the fascinating intersection of neuroscience and effective training.

Sardek is presenting a standalone session at the Training Magazine conference and expo called “The science of designing ridiculously engaging learning experiences,” which is also known as “The science of engagement”. His recent focus has pivoted to looking at the neuroscience and psychology behind the things trainers do, noting that while many training techniques have roots in these fields, most trainers are unaware of it. He highlights that many techniques taught by Bob Pike, which he and the host use, are backed by deep data from a neuroscience perspective.

In this conversation, Sardek dives deep into techniques that leverage brain science for better engagement and learning:

* The Engagement Loop: Sardek’s framework, created based on neuroscience, has three phases:

* Grab people’s attention by doing something novel.

* Create connection or allow participants to connect with each other, building trust. The neuroscience suggests allowing participants to connect with each other first before moving to large group discussion.

* Create interaction, which is essentially experiential learning or training activities.

* Overcoming Silence with Escalating Mutual Disclosure: Sardek discusses how most trainers are met with “bone crushing, mind numbing silence” when they ask a question because participants are cautious and fearful of being judged. The solution, a neuroscience technique called escalating mutual disclosure , involves repeatedly asking questions and having participants respond at the table group level (pair shares, triads, quads) in the beginning of a course. The questions should gradually increase the amount of vulnerability demonstrated.

* The Benjamin Franklin Effect: Sardek explains that when participants share their tips or “edify each other” at the table group level, it creates the Benjamin Franklin effect. This means doing a favor for someone actually makes a person neurologically like the recipient, reducing cognitive dissonance and automatically building trust.

* The Peak-End Theory in Experiential Learning: Sardek uses Daniel Kahneman’s peak-end theory to design impactful experiential activities. People judge an experience based on the most intense moment and the very end of that experience. Sardek’s approach involves agitating a known problem, putting people into an experiential activity that simulates the problem and its emotions, and then providing the solution at the end. He uses his “taste of change” activity with Warheads candy as an example, where the intense sourness represents the fear and resistance of change, and the eventual sweetness represents the metaphor for change.

He also touches on the fact that current instructional design principles may be outdated, and as we learn more about the brain and how habits are changing (especially after the pandemic), refinement of adult learning principles will be necessary. He suggests focusing on the three most relevant of Gagne’s nine events of instruction rather than covering all nine in live instruction.

Key Takeaways

* Neuroscience is the foundation for effective engagement: Many successful training techniques are rooted in brain science, even if the trainer is unaware of it.

* Build trust before large group discussion: Start with activities that allow participants to connect and build trust in small groups (pair shares, triads) to overcome the fear of being judged and the resulting “mind numbing silence”.

* Use Escalating Mutual Disclosure: Gradually increase the vulnerability of questions asked in small groups to build trust and connection.

* Leverage the Peak-End Theory in Design: Make the experiential learning’s most intense moment and its conclusion memorable to shape how people judge the entire experience.

In this conversation, Duane Lester interviews Lenn Millbower, who shares his extensive background in entertainment and training, particularly at Disney. They discuss the importance of blending emotion and logic in training, innovative techniques used at Disney, and the principles of engaging learning environments. Millbower emphasizes the significance of storytelling, humor, and professionalism in training, while also introducing his LearnerTainment principles that enhance the learning experience.

You can buy Lenn’s new book The Santa System: Ten Leader Lessons from the North Pole here.

Key Takeaways

* Emotion and logic must be balanced in training.

* Engaging training requires innovative techniques.

* Storytelling is crucial for connecting with learners.

* The environment should be controlled to enhance learning.

* Humor can create a positive atmosphere in training.

* Professionalism in delivery leads to better outcomes.

* Training should focus on what’s in it for the learners.

* Using props and visuals aids retention.

* Creating a magical learning experience is essential.

* Rudolph’s story illustrates the importance of creativity in training.

What happens when you realize great training isn’t enough?

That’s the question Jess Almlie faced when she left the corporate world to build her own business and began discovering the limits of traditional learning and development. In this conversation, she shares the highs and lows of being self-employed, the lessons behind her new book L&D Order Taker No More, and why too many trainers set themselves up for failure by treating every problem as a “training problem.”

Jess explains how she learned the hard way that even the best-designed programs can fall flat if they’re not addressing the real issue. Misaligned systems, unclear expectations, or poor management habits can’t be fixed by a course or a workshop. Her solution: stop acting like helpers and start showing up as strategic partners. That means slowing down, asking sharper questions, and resisting the urge to plug in training as the default answer.

We also talk about the process of writing a book—how years of blogging, experimenting, and testing ideas gradually turned into a practical handbook that every learning leader wishes they had when moving from order taker to business partner. Jess pulls back the curtain on how she made that transition and what it takes to create lasting impact inside organizations.

If you’ve ever wondered how to stop spinning out content that doesn’t move the needle—or if you’ve thought about writing your own book—this episode will resonate.

In this conversation, LaNiqua McCloud shares her journey as a mother of a gifted child and her evolution into an advocate for parents navigating the challenges of the education system. She discusses the importance of empowerment, the process of writing her book ‘Birth of an Advocate’, and the lessons learned through her experiences in training and education. LaNiqua emphasizes the need for individualized approaches in both parenting and training, and she expresses her desire to coach other parents in their advocacy journeys.

Get a copy of LaNiqua’s book, “Birth of an Advocate” here.

Organizations are built on trust, and trust is built on communication and mutual understanding.

It’s not enough to know your own strengths, work style, and values. Leaders must also learn the strengths, work styles, and values of the people they depend on. Performance depends on it.

Trust grows when we build on each other’s strengths, respect each other’s ways of working, and share what others can count on from us. Clarity creates trust, and trust creates results.

Here’s your challenge: Make a list of the people who depend on you, and those you depend on. Write down what each person needs from you, and what you need from them. Then share it.

Listen to the full episode here: [

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How do you build trust in your work relationships?

Lead with purpose.