In this episode Naomi talks to freelance artist Dan Thompson about the responsibility of knowing an appropriate amount about who you are working with.

Dan talks about the impact that the work can have on people who participate in it. At its most basic level we need to know their access needs. But at a deeper level we need to understand who they are and why they are participating in the project.

He talks about the diversity of approaches that are needed when working in different contexts. Sometimes it is a deep, long term relationship and other times it is more of a fleeting relationship. As a freelance artist he has his own safeguarding policy in place. This doesn’t need to be complicated - his is less than one side of A4.

Quite often he doesn’t know anything about what has happened in someone’s life and he is okay with that. There is a discussion about the freedom in not knowing and being able to treat everyone equally. Sometimes this enables people to participate in an art project for the first time as they are free of any label or preconceptions of them.

Each artist needs to decide for themselves how much they need to know in each context they are working in. Dan talks about how layered and complex this decision making process is. When it works it can change people’s lives.

Dan talks about a challenge involved being around holding people’s traumatic stories. He talks about the importance of having someone that the artist can talk to and offload what they have heard to. A risk of not knowing enough is that it is possible to alienate people so that they do not come back again. With all of it, Dan believes that artists need to be kind and decent to the people they are working with.

Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.

X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre

IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/

Dan Thompson is a Freelance Artist. You can find out more about his work here.

X: https://twitter.com/artistsmakers

IG: https://www.instagram.com/danthompson33/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-thompson-397501/

In this episode, Naomi has a conversation with her colleague at Brighton People's Theatre; Jack Parris, about the responsibility of creating a structure or purpose. He talks about the importance of this responsibility because without it, the work can feel uncontained and daunting. The structure creates limitations and gives a picture to everyone involved in the project of what the parameters are for people to play in.

Jack tries to communicate as clearly as possible about where we are in the co-creation process. He tries to generate as much clarity as possible to demystify the theatre making process so that people have an overview of the structure and purpose.

When the structure and purpose is clear, you see people really playing with freedom. With clear parameters the conversation is richer and people feel safer. There is a safe container for the work.

It is challenging during co-created work to hold this responsibility as there are so many unknowns during the process. Jack talks about the importance of being able to be clear about what is known and unknown at each moment in the process. This can be frustrating for people who might feel less comfortable working with so many unknowns. It can also be challenging letting go of ideas, as not everything that is suggested can be integrated into the final project. Having a clear purpose on why we are doing this can help with decision making, but at the start of a process even the purpose will not be clear.

There are risks if this is not held effectively that people lose interest in the work and get confused about what they are doing and why. It is really important to have as much clarity as possible for the organisation, starting at the top with a clear vision and mission. This enables decision making to become clearer and easier with a clear purpose and structure guiding the work.

Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.

X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre

IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/

Jack Parris is the Associate Director of Brighton People's Theatre.

IG: https://www.instagram.com/jackparrisd/

In this episode Naomi talks to Jess Thorpe, Co-Artistic Director of the award-winning Scottish company Glass Performance. Jess talks about through the co-creative process, the artist is bringing the framework and tools and the non professional artist is bringing their lived experience. For her it is important to ensure that the non-professional artists understand the process they are going through.

She thinks it is very important that she is not extractive, taking the best stories for her artistic glory. She prioritises the relationship with people she is working with and considers people’s emotional needs throughout the process.

Over the years she has created a process that she can pass on to others (with her collaborator Tashi Gore). Sometimes people expect a script. This is particularly prevalent in a prison context where she often works. She gives each of the stages of the process a name and writes this structure on the wall so that people understand where they are in the process. She constantly creates a shared language in the room.

Jess talks about the importance of rituals to create opportunities for feedback and dialogue within the group. They utilise questions a lot. They also have an Anonymous Anxieties box which anyone can put a question or concern in so that issues can be raised in a safe way. It brings multiple voices into the room. She brings this box into the process a couple of times when she feels she needs to know what is really going on in the space. It’s not there all the time as she would not want anxiety to overwhelm the space.

She talks about how their partnership work with Barnardos has enabled a youth worker to be part of the process who holds responsibility for the wellbeing of the young people. This enables her to focus on the theatre. This has been a game changer for Jess. She also has access to a dramatherapist for support in her work at Dundee Rep. Jess talks about the importance of being trauma informed so that everyone comes out of the project more empowered than when they started it.

In reflecting on the challenges of this responsibility, Jess talks about how exhausting it can be. Over the years she has developed stronger boundaries with a clearly articulated path ahead for the relationship once the project has come to an end. There is also a challenge around the level of editorial support that participants might want or need. Sometimes participants will know best what they are capable of and trust that the work is a vehicle for something important to them.

Jess talks about the risks of human pain if the project is not held in a way that feels good. The fear is that someone feels taken advantage of and that work has been made on the back of their life. She has been asked challenging questions by participants which have enabled her to grow because she was scared of them but engaged with them.

She says that you need to ask yourself as an artist why you are doing it. She is concerned about social tourism - where the artist and audience is a tourist in someone else’s social context with a power dynamic that is problematic. She is also concerned about value-signalling that some artists fall into a trap of talking publicly about who they are working with as if they are doing people a huge service. For her it is about lifting people up in the dialogue around your work, not lifting yourself up.

Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.

X: @naomi_ontheatre

IG: @naomi.ontheatre

LinkedIn: @naomiontheatre

Jess Thorpe is the Co-Artistic Director of Glass Performance.

X: @glassperform

IG: @glassperformance

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