The Listing Bits Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Greg Robertson sits down with Joe Kazzoun, CEO of Remine, for a wide-ranging conversation on real estate technology, forms, MLS dynamics, and Remine's path forward under new ownership. Joe walks through his career across brokerage tech, transaction management, and proptech, then digs into lessons learned from Instanet, Lone Wolf, Dotloop/Zillow, and his return to Remine. The discussion focuses on software bloat, member benefits vs. direct sales, and how Remine is simplifying its product strategy to regain stability and growth.

• Joe Kazzoun's career arc spans brokerage tech, transaction management, and proptech leadership, shaping his pragmatic view of software in organized real estate.

• The forms and transaction management market became fragmented due to MLSs seeking control over technology choices rather than relying solely on association member benefits.

• Dotloop's success highlighted the power of direct-to-agent sales, strong customer support, and simplicity over feature overload.

• Software bloat—especially in MLS environments driven by committee decisions—often hurts usability more than it helps adoption.

• Remine struggled under MLS ownership due to governance complexity and delayed cost-cutting, leading to a public sale process.

• Remine's acquisition by Place (Ben Kinney & Chris Suarez) stabilized the company, reduced redundancy, and moved it toward break-even.

• Going forward, Remine is focusing on clarity: prospecting, public record/tax data, simple MLS search, and Docs+—not trying to be everything at once.

• Remine is re-positioning its tax and public records tools as a standalone value for MLSs, alongside continued sales to MLSs, associations, and directly to agents and teams.

LinkedIn

Email: jkazoon@remine.com

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Greg sits down with returning guest Annie Ives, CEO of CLAW/The MLS™, to discuss major industry changes following NAR policy shifts, the rise of MLS-only memberships, exclusive-listing strategies, and the rapid growth of CLAW's in-house technology products including Vesta Plus, Checkmate, Showing software, and MarketSnap. Annie also shares insights on managing a high-end market, delivering strong customer service, and the future role of MLSs in a shifting industry.

Key Takeaways

• NAR's policy changes are already increasing MLS-only membership interest, especially in California's Thompson state environment.

• Annie expects MLS-only membership to rise from ~15% to potentially 25–30% as agents look to cut costs.

• Associations may face pressure to restate their value proposition as non-dues revenue becomes increasingly important.

• CLAW is launching a new listing status: MLS Exclusive — allowing listings to remain off-market-facing while still visible to MLS members.

• MLS Exclusive listings accrue no DOM and no public price-change history while in that status.

• CLAW continues to grow its in-house technology stack, including:

  • Vesta Plus MLS platform

  • Checkmate compliance software (now used by ~200k agents)

  • Showing software

  • MarketSnap analytics

• Annie credits their success to customization, rapid iteration, and client-driven feature development.

• She predicts MLSs will increasingly become technology companies, especially as revenue from dues becomes less stable.

• Future industry direction remains uncertain, but Annie emphasizes persistence, adaptability, and building strong teams as core to longevity.

Links:

Vesta Plus – Request a demo

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This Listing Bits episode is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Greg Robertson sits down with industry veteran Amy Gorce of REdistribute to clarify what REdistribute actually does, how it differs from display-focused data platforms, and why MLSs should care about the exploding gray-market use of MLS data. Amy breaks down the institutional-buyer use cases, explains how gray-market pipelines emerged, and outlines why MLS participation directly impacts valuation accuracy, AVMs, risk modeling, and overall market health.

Key Takeaways
• REdistribute is not a display vendor. Their data is used solely for institutional-grade analytics, AVMs, risk modeling, and portfolio management—never for consumer-facing listing display. 
• Owned by MLSs, built for MLSs. The operating agreement limits eligible purchasers and prevents MLSs or brokers from using the data for competitive display products. 
• The gray market is real and accelerating. Companies scrape, partner with brokers, or purchase unclear data sources to fuel AVMs and risk tools—often without MLS compensation. REdistribute is actively converting gray-market users. 
• AI is making the problem bigger. Scraping tools, automated ingestion, and LLM training pipelines are proliferating. REdistribute is building an MCP server to support AI-specific use cases in a controlled and compliant way. 
• Coverage, not demand, is the bottleneck. Institutional buyers are ready, but MLS participation is still below critical mass (~55–60% coverage). More MLSs joining closes the gap and increases revenue potential. 
• Economics vary by use case. AVM licensing generates significantly higher value than simple match-and-append use cases—creating real opportunities for meaningful revenue distribution back to MLSs and brokers. 
• Joining is simple. MLSs sign a license agreement and can be onboarded in roughly two weeks, with quarterly revenue distributions. 

Links
• The Market Value of Listing Data—and the Cost of the Grey Market - White Paper

Contact

Amy Gorce
Allison Duggins

Sponsors
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Production and editing services by:
Sunbound Studios