Is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy REALLY superior to Humanistic or Psychodynamic approaches? According to the scientific evidence, what factors ACTUALLY drive the change process, and what skills can therapists strengthen to get better outcomes?

In this episode of The Making Therapy Better Podcast, our host Dr. Bruce Wampold takes the guest seat in a lively conversation with a group of young Brazilian psychologists who are at the heart of a contentious debate gaining national attention in Brazil: Geissy Araújo, Ph.D., Maurício Majolo, M.S., Lucas Cardoso, and Mateus Souza, M.S.

Together, they discuss:

- The common arguments that certain theoretical orientations are superior to others

- Whether these claims are supported by the scientific evidence

- What the data actually reveal about the change process in psychotherapy

- The balance between theory, evidence, and human connection

- The path toward a more productive conversation about improving psychotherapy training and outcomes in Brazil and around the world

Bruce reminds us that therapy is not merely a set of techniques — it’s a social and relational healing practice rooted in empathy, collaboration, and meaning.

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Be sure to also check out our related episode where Bruce and Scott Miller discuss some of these topics in greater detail:

#21: "What Makes Therapy Work?" - Scott Miller, PhD interviews Bruce Wampold, PhD (S3, E1): https://youtu.be/A0stmKy3Jnc?si=akkCENIxGBlL3Lkk

🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — your support helps us keep these conversations going.

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Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of "The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work" -- and among the most influential psychotherapy researchers alive today.

Produced and edited by Geissy Araújo, Ph.D. and Kevin Riordan.

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health record system designed to help you improve therapy outcomes.https://www.carepaths.com

Follow the Making Therapy Better project:

🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com

📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter

📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better

💼 LinkedIn: /9223245

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00:00 Introduction to the Episode and Guest

03:25 Bruce's Journey into Psychotherapy

08:24 The Role of Personal Experience in Therapy

13:04 Common Factors in Psychotherapy

19:25 The Importance of Therapist-Patient Relationship

27:19 Cultural and Contextual Considerations in Therapy

36:08 Impact of Culturally Adapted Therapy

38:11 Debates on Empirically Supported Treatments

39:47 The Evolution of Evidence-Based Practice

42:10 The Essence of Psychotherapy

44:10 Future of Therapist Training

47:26 Science Communication in Psychotherapy

49:25 Measurement-Based Care and Therapist Improvement

01:00:22 Advice for New Therapists

01:03:08 The Role of AI and Technology in Therapy

01:04:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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#Psychotherapy #TherapySkills #Counseling #HumanisticTherapy #EmotionFocusedTherapy #PluralisticTherapy #cognitivebehavioraltherapy #TherapistTraining #ClinicalSupervision #BruceWampold #MakingTherapyBetter #MentalHealth

Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use.

Why do therapists keep making the same avoidable mistakes?

In this episode, Dr. Bruce Wampold sits down with Dr. Mick Cooper — Professor of Counseling Psychology at the University of Roehampton and an internationally recognized expert in humanistic, existential, and pluralistic therapies.

Together, Bruce and Mick break down common therapist mistakes and their impact on the therapeutic alliance. Through fun and helpful role-plays, they even demonstrate how these common mistakes can show up in the therapy room, and what more effective responses might look like.

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Topics include:

• Being too passive (too much silence, not enough engagement)

• Talking too much, or saying things that just aren’t relevant

• Being too cognitive and avoiding emotion

• Letting that “therapist voice” or rigid techniques get in the way of authenticity

• Avoiding affect even when it’s clearly right there

• Colluding with the client instead of exploring the meaning

• Assuming your preferred model is the “right” one for every client

• Failing to explain how therapy works, or why what you’re doing may be helpful

And later in the episode, Bruce and Mick dive into live role-plays portraying how these mistakes can show up in the therapy room — and what more effective responses might look like.

Whether you're a clinician, supervisor, trainee, or simply curious about what actually happens in the therapy room, this episode offers a rare, behind-the-scenes look at the micro-skills that matter most.

What do YOU think therapists should never do? We’d love to hear your thoughts. Share your perspective in the comments!

🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — your support helps us keep these conversations going.

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👉 Be sure to also check out Mick's related video! 👈

How NOT to do Counseling: 13 Things to Try and Avoid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOk7mR5mFLE

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Mick Cooper, Ph.D. | Professor of Counseling Psychology, University of Roehampton; Author of numerous books, including: Working at Relational Depth in Counselling and Psychotherapy and Psychology at the Heart of Social Change: Developing a Progressive Vision for Society. Check out his books here! https://www.amazon.com/stores/Mick-Cooper/author/B001H6PZPQ

Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate

Produced and edited by Geissy Araújo, Ph.D. and Kevin Riordan.

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health record system designed to help you improve therapy outcomes.

https://www.carepaths.com

Follow the Making Therapy Better project:

🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com

📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter

📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better

💼 LinkedIn: /9223245

Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use.

Despite decades of evidence showing that group therapy is often just as effective as individual therapy, it remains underutilized in clinical training and practice. Why?

In this episode, Dr. Bruce Wampold sits down with Dr. Cheri Marmarosh — Professor of Clinical Psychology at The George Washington University and one of the world's leading experts on group psychotherapy. Together, they discuss:

• Why training programs and reimbursement systems still prioritize individual therapy
• The relational and cultural barriers that make therapists hesitant to lead groups
• How group therapy addresses isolation, loneliness, and disconnection
• What it takes to become an effective group leader
• The challenges and possibilities of running groups online
• How group dynamics reveal the real-life patterns that shape our relationships

If you’re a clinician, educator, or simply curious about how people grow through connection, this episode will remind you that healing doesn’t happen in isolation — it happens in relationship.

Correction: Dr. Marmarosh is now a full professor. She was incorectly introduced as associate professor in the introduction.

🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — and stay tuned for more content coming soon!

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Cheri Marmarosh, Ph.D. | Associate Professor of Clinical Psychology, The George Washington University; Director, Group Psychotherapy Research Lab; Author of Attachment in Group Psychotherapy

Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. https://www.carepaths.com

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Follow the Making Therapy Better project:

🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com

📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter

📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better

📘 Facebook: /makingtherapybetter

🐦 Twitter: /therapybetter

💼 LinkedIn: /9223245

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Produced and edited by Kevin Riordan and Geissy Araújo. Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use.

#GroupTherapy #Psychotherapy #Therapy #CheriMarmarosh #BruceWampold #AttachmentTheory #MentalHealth #PsychotherapyResearch #Loneliness #Teletherapy #ClinicalTraining #MakingTherapyBetter #MentalHealth