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Ever drive down a familiar road, hit the same old pothole, and think "Didn't they patch that up last summer? And it's already back?!" Well buckle your seatbelt, because today's guest is going to show you how the same is true in math education, and why we need to FIX THE DAMN ROAD!

Courtney Flessner has 30 years of experience behind the wheel of teaching practices, and is an advocate for supporting teachers with schools that help them grow and professional development that actually makes a difference. Today she joins Vanessa to discuss:

• Why teachers often default to teaching the way they were taught
• The power of vulnerability and honesty in helping students learn
• Whether a teacher's own math anxiety is "contagious"

This is a must-listen for any teacher that's felt like they want to keep growing but don't know where to start!

Links mentioned:

• Learning Together: Organizing Schools for Teacher and Student Learning (book)

About Courtney: (Instagram, LinkedIn)

Courtney Flessner is the Director of Keep Indiana Learning at the Central Indiana Educational Service Center. She spent 17 years working in public, private, and public charter schools as a classroom teacher, instructional coach, and administrator. Her work focuses on supporting instructional leaders and elementary mathematics teachers in creating environments that foster ambitious and equitable mathematics teaching. She is passionate about changing the narrative that some people are simply “not math people” and inspiring educators to teach mathematics ambitiously - and maybe even have a little fun while doing so.

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

Over the summer, Vanessa recorded our first interview with an actual real life audience when she sat down at a conference with Chase Orton for an unfiltered and tense conversation.

Among many hot topics debated, they discussed the challenges teachers face in wanting to make changes in their students' lives while having to closely follow curricula and standards - and one clip went VIRAL online with teachers all over the continent weighing in!

Even months later, Vanessa is convinced that there MUST be some middle ground, so today she explores 5 strategies teachers can use to seek balance between the extremes by finding the "middle path":

1. if you can't move the mountain, move a stone
2. use the curriculum, don't let it use you
3. protect the first 5 minutes of your class
4. build your community
5. redefine "success"

Links mentioned:

• The Math Therapy episode with Chase Orton that started it all and the clip that went viral on TikTok with 200 comments
• 3 things every math teacher should do from Day 1
• Episode on redefining "success"

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

Last week we shared a full Math Therapy session with lifelong "not-a-math-person" Lauren Keeling, which was recorded as part of Imagine Learning's "Heart Work" podcast series on math anxiety.

And as promised, today Vanessa follows up with Lauren 4 months later to learn the domino effect that session had on her whole life! They discuss:

• How her story around math impacted her ENTIRE identity
• How Duolingo Math made learning fun & low-stakes (131-day streak & counting!)
• The key to healing math trauma: build trust & remove shame

Links mentioned:

• Last week's Before & After Pt. 1 w Lauren Keeling
• 3-part podcast series: "Heart Work: Breaking the Cycle of Math Anxiety" by Imagine Learning
• How Math Therapy changed my entire life w/ Charizma Laughton (Jun '25)

About Lauren:

Lauren Keeling is a National Curriculum Consultant with Imagine Learning and the host of Heart Work, a podcast exploring the work of America's educators. A literacy leader with more than 15 years of experience supporting public education systems, she has served as a teacher, principal, curriculum strategist, and educational leader, helping districts navigate meaningful instructional change. Lauren is passionate about the intersection of learning, leadership, and the
human side of educational transformation. She is also completing doctoral research on collaborative leadership and curriculum change.

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here