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What if the rejection that knocked you down was actually preparing you to lead?

This one was recorded somewhere a little different — the middle of the Caribbean Sea, on a group vacation with our guest. Because sometimes the best conversations happen when you stop scheduling them.

Dr. Darren Pierre is a lecturer in the Office of Global Engineering Leadership at the University of Maryland, College Park, and a preeminent scholar in higher education, leadership education, and student affairs. He is also the co-author of Considerations for Culturally Informed Leadership: Moving Toward the Future — a book designed to help the next generation of leaders navigate a global world with cultural fluency and genuine humility.

In this conversation, Elizabeth and Darren cover a lot of ground: what it really means to be a leader (spoiler: it's not what the archetype says), why rejection belongs in the leadership story, the difference between change and transition, and why student affairs has had an attrition problem long before it became a political talking point.

Darren also makes a case that will stick with you: leadership is a process, not a credential. And the slingshot matters just as much as the armor.

On Campus, Off the Record. The meeting after the meeting.

Find us on Buzzsprout: https://oncampusofftherecord.buzzsprout.com/

Resources:

• Darren Pierre's book: Considerations for Culturally Informed Leadership: Moving Toward the Future — co-authored with Dr. Kathy Guthrie. A framework for college-age leaders preparing to lead in a global world.

• Peter Northouse, Leadership: Theory and Practice — the leadership text Darren references in his classes. One of the most widely used leadership frameworks in higher education.

• Malcolm Gladwell's TED Talk: "The Unheard Story of David and Goliath" — the reframe Darren references on what it means to carry the underdog advantage into any room.

• William Bridges, Transitions: Making Sense of Life's Changes — the foundational text behind the change vs. transition distinction Elizabeth raises in the conversation.

About the Guest
https://www.darrenpierre.com/

Dr. Darren Pierre is a lecturer in the Office of Global Engineering Leadership at the University of Maryland, College Park. He is a scholar in higher education, leadership education, and student affairs, and the co-author of Considerations for Culturally Informed Leadership: Moving Toward the Future. He has taught leadership seminars internationally, including at the University of Sydney, and has spent his career helping students — and the institutions that serve them — lead with cultural intelligence.

About On Campus, Off the Record
If you work in student housing, residence life, or higher education leadership, this show was made for you. On Campus, Off the Record is the candid, peer-to-peer conversations that happen when the official channels go quiet. Hosted by Dr. Elizabeth Cox

Find us on Buzzsprout: https://oncampusofftherecord.buzzsprout.com/

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In this episode, we sit down with Michigan State’s Executive Vice President of Administration, Vennie Gore. He leads a vast and diverse campus portfolio with a simple playbook: master the basics, align on what matters, and expand only when the team is ready. From the story behind his one-of-a-kind name to the 14 Golden Rules he wrote as a hall director—and still follows today—Vennie shows how consistency beats complexity in high-stakes operations.

We unpack his “20-mile walk” for building alignment across units with different definitions of “the basics” and explore why a football season offers the perfect analogy for organizational maturity: start simple, earn trust through execution, then open the playbook. He also shares why he treats careers as portfolios, not ladders, and how pattern recognition helps leaders “slow down to hurry up.”

Along the way, we dive into systems thinking through sports: why even “individual” sports like golf are deeply interdependent, how leaders switch hats between partner, supplier, customer, and vendor, and why emotional energy is a leader’s most contagious signal. Vennie makes the case for marrying student development theory with the business of higher education, building organizational readiness, and reducing unforced errors through direct communication, trust, humility, and a no-surprises culture.

A grounded, practical guide for anyone steering large teams through long seasons.

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A personal reflection on how summer camp experiences teach profound lessons about leadership, community living, and navigating loss. This solo episode explores how the simple act of sharing space shapes our ability to lead with care and presence during both ordinary moments and times of crisis.

• Summer camp as the first experience of co-living – sharing everything from bathrooms to stories
• Camp counselors as "lollipop leaders" who make impact through small, often forgotten moments
• Leadership often looks like showing up consistently, not necessarily having all the answers
• The power of ritualized connection through handwritten "chicken letters" and personal notes
• Navigating transitions by acknowledging endings and making space for grief
• Building resilience through community and practicing how to live alongside difference

If we want stronger leaders, better neighbors, and more compassionate communities, we have to keep practicing how to live together. Let's honor the places and people who shaped us by how we show up for one another, especially in the hardest moments.

If you would like to support the Texas Hill Country community after the devastating floods, considering giving to the Community Foundation of the Texas Hill Country. https://www.communityfoundation.net/