Does the church still matter in our modern world?

After waves of disillusionment, #churchtoo movements, and political divides, it’s easy to question the value of investing in the church.

Dr Carmen Joy Imes (PhD, Wheaton) is associate professor of Old Testament at Biola University. She is the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters, Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters, and the editor of Praying the Psalms with Augustine and Friends. Her new book is Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters.

Book: Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters

Dr Carmen Imes' Blog

1. Ways People Have Been Hurt by the Church
2. Unity in a Multiethnic and Intergenerational Congregation
3. Church on the Couch is Not Church

Dr Carmen Joy Imes (PhD, Wheaton) is associate professor of Old Testament at Biola University. She is the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters, Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters, and the editor of Praying the Psalms with Augustine and Friends. Her new book is Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters.

1. Dr Carmen Imes, Biola University
2. Book: Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters
3. Dr Carmen Imes' Blog

00:40 - Introducing Dr Carmen Imes

01:21 - Major Issues When People Experience Hurt in the Church

02:14 - ...not being heard

02:38 - ...gifts are not welcome nor recognized

04:30 - ...conflicts, boredom, needs not met...

04:45 - Ways to Minimize Hurting People

05:48 - ... the role of trust and context

07:26 - ...being vulnerable

08:02 - ...engaging and working through differences

08:31 - ...feeling well loved

11:34 - Biblical Example of Belonging

11:51 - ...metaphor of family

12:23 - ...solidarity

12:58 - ...individualism in our society

13:48 - Unity in a Multiethnic and Intergenerational Congregation

14:18 - ...learn to defer and love one another

14:24 - ...de-center the majority culture

16:30 - ...appreciate each other

17:31 - Church on the Couch is Not Church

17:47 - ...online church is a blessing if it is a necessity

18:34 - ...but it is a poor substitute for in-person church

19:01 - ...family needs to be together physically

19:49 - ...your presence is important and encouraging to others

20:07 - ...church is not just transmitting information; a community is...

Does the church still matter in our modern world?

After waves of disillusionment, #churchtoo movements, and political divides, it’s easy to question the value of investing in the church.

Dr Carmen Joy Imes (PhD, Wheaton) is associate professor of Old Testament at Biola University. She is the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters, Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters, and the editor of Praying the Psalms with Augustine and Friends. Her new book is Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters.

Book: Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters

Dr Carmen Imes' Blog

1. Understanding Our Identity as Being Part of God's Family
2. Why Do People Think God and Church Are Not Relevant?
3. Helping People Who Have Been Hurt by the Church

Dr Carmen Joy Imes (PhD, Wheaton) is associate professor of Old Testament at Biola University. She is the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters, Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters, and the editor of Praying the Psalms with Augustine and Friends. Her new book is Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters.

1. Dr Carmen Imes, Biola University
2. Book: Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters
3. Dr Carmen Imes' Blog

00:38 - Introducing Dr Carmen Imes

02:40 - God's Heart for Family

02:56 - ...God creates a world and intends for everyone to flourish

03:07 - ...God's plan to save the world begins with a family

04:04 - ...Jesus is the new Adam and the pathway that we become God's family

04:27 - Understanding Our Identity as Being Part of God's Family

04:50 - ...every human being is the image of God

05:32 - ...we are estranged from God so we don't live as God's family

06:22 - ...seeing people as potential siblings

08:57 - ...western church needs to learn that God works through people who have no power

10:57 - ...Esther and Daniel model two different ways of navigating faith under oppressive empires

11:47 - Why Do People Think God and Church Are Not Relevant?

12:20 - ...individualism

13:01 - ...quest for happiness

14:05 - ...but encouragingly, religion is no longer a private matter, but people want to know what you believe

16:35 - ...to share in the sufferings of others is part of what it means to become part of God's family

18:03 - ...the most effective form of evangelism right now is coming alongside

When the burdens of life and ministry push you to your physical and mental breaking point, how can you lead yourself, let alone others? Dr Dudley's new book, Leading Through Storms: Successfully Navigating Ministry While Maintaining Your Mental Health, addresses that and more.

Dr Geoffrey V. Dudley Sr. (PhD, Regent) is the founding and senior pastor of New Life in Christ Church, one of the fastest growing churches in the Metro East area of St. Louis, Missouri (O’Fallon, Illinois). Originally from Goldsboro, North Carolina, Dudley began ministry at the age of thirteen, was ordained by the United Holy Church of America in 1986, and is a retired Air Force chaplain and lieutenant colonel. He is also the CEO of iLead Enterprises, a leadership development platform for staff and workforce development. He and his wife, Glenda, have two adult children who are both ministry leaders.

Dr Dudley on IVPress

Leading Through Storms: Successfully Navigating Ministry While Maintaining Your Mental Health

1. Putting Down the Shame of Mental Health
2. Recognizing the Breaking Point When in Storms
3. Practical Steps to Cultivating Self-Awareness, Emotional Resilience, and Self-Care

Dr Geoffrey Dudley, Sr, is the founding and senior pastor of New Life in Christ Church in O’Fallon, Illinois. Originally from Goldsboro, North Carolina, Dr Dudley began ministry at the age of thirteen, is a retired Air Force chaplain and lieutenant colonel, and also the CEO of iLead Enterprises, a leadership development platform for staff and workforce development.

1. Dr Dudley on IVPress
2. Leading Through Storms: Successfully Navigating Ministry While Maintaining Your Mental Health

07:01 - What is unique in Dr Dudley's approach to leadership?

09:35 - ...how I messed up but the mission went forward with the faithfulness of God

10:31 - Putting Down the Shame of Mental Health

12:17 - ...authentic leadership

12:58 - ...level of openness for teachers is different than that of pastors

16:42 - Recognizing the Breaking Point When in Storms

17:10 - ...Know thyself

17:38 - ...leaders tend not to be reflective

18:18 - Practical Steps to Cultivating Self-Awareness, Emotional Resilience, and Self-Care

19:19 - ...what are the rhythms and seasons of your life?

20:07 - ...taking time off and keeping it

21:33 - ...check out the younger generation

22:39 - ...emotionally dry

23:25 - ...visionaries always have to have something to go after

24:19 - How can Church Leadership and the Congregation Help?

24:39 - ...demand that the leaders take time, have...

Jen Chen's book, Dim Sum and Faith, is an invitation to pause, reflect, and rediscover the joy and peace that comes from knowing you are lovingly crafted by God. It’s about seeing how our stories are a part of God’s continuous formation in our lives.

Jenn Chen's new book: Dim Sum and Faith

Jenn Chen's websites: Summit Clear and Personal Website

1. Importance of food, family, and memories
2. Revisiting the painful parts of our stories
3. The truth of our stories

Jenn Suen Chen is a spiritual director, speaker, and leader in the area of spiritual formation and crosscultural ministry. She is co-director of Summit Clear (with her husband, John), an organization focused on providing spiritual direction, mentoring, and leadership coaching for those in crosscultural work. She serves with Pioneers and spent twenty-five years living in Asia raising her family. Jenn and John have four adult children and live in the Pacific Northwest.

1. Jenn Chen's new book: Dim Sum and Faith
2. Jenn Chen's websites: Summit Clear and Personal Website

00:39 - Introducing Jenn Chen

02:46 - Dim Sum and Faith - importance of food, family, and memories

03:11 - ...reminders of home and memories

04:07 - ...where did we come from?

05:19 - Identity Shaped by Cross-Cultural Experiences

09:03 - How Our Stories Form Our Beliefs

09:20 - Dim Sum and Faith is about Spiritual Formation

09:28 - ...God is about our transformation and our growth

09:40 - ...relating to God in our context and understanding God through our lens

10:50 - ...invitational by nature

12:32 - ...it's still about relationship and identity

13:51 - Revisiting the painful parts of our stories

14:31 - ...story work with the Lord

14:47 - ...living in China made her face her discomfort in being an Asian woman

16:21 - ...her father transformed because of the gospel

17:24 - ...pray through generational things

17:40 - ...we carry values from past generations

17:53 - ...giving things to the Lord

18:56 - Getting an accurate picture of the effects of our stories

19:26 - ...need the Holy Spirit to reveal the places in our heart that need healing

19:33 - ...need others to mirror the truth to us

19:41 - ...feelings are real, but not always true

20:03 - ...some stories are good while other leave deep wounds

24:17 - ...healing in community

25:40 - Letting go of wrong beliefs

25:56 - ...ask God to reveal our wrong beliefs

26:29 - ...does God really love me?

28:27 - Realizing God's plan for us

28:50 - ...ask God to show us His heart

28:54 - ...ask God what our gifts are

29:14 - ...find others who want to do the same

29:51 - ...take...

Josh has recently authored Remissioning Church, A Field Guide to Bringing a Congregation Back to Life, where he talks about transforming a church from the inside out to bring a new missional presence that brings life and flourishing to the neighborhood.

Book: Remissioning Church

1. How and why congregations might be dying
2. Remissioning vs Revitalizing
3. Inside-out transformation

Josh Hayden is the co-founder and co-president of `Iwa Collaborative, which helps leaders fly high and live low as they lead through change processes in their community. He runs remissioning trainings through `Iwa Collaborative across various denominational, non-denominational, and global networks.

Josh Hayden is the senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Ashland, Virginia. For over 20 years he has worked and led in nonprofit organizations, church plants, and established churches. He has a doctorate in leadership and organizational change from Duke Divinity School and is the author of Remissioning Church and Sacred Hope. He serves on the boards of numerous nonprofits. He and his family live near Richmond, Virginia.

1. Iwa Collaborative
2. First Baptist Ashland VA

01:22 - Introducing Pastor Josh Hayden

05:32 - How and why congregations might be dying

06:04 - ...churches in survival mode

06:21 - ...counting, not reflecting Jesus

06:42 - ...want people to lead, but rarely invite or train up leaders

07:16 - ...afraid of conflict, stuck in tradition

07:45 - How Josh's journey influenced the writing of the book

09:22 - Established church vs church plant

10:53 - Exploring the book title: Remissioning Church

11:42 - ...Remissioning vs Revitalizing

14:44 - ...Remissioning was not a word that people were using regularly

16:27 - ...Is it RE-missioning or re-MISSION-ing?

19:12 - How does church leadership assess if the church should be remissioned?

19:28 - ...awareness of where the church is in the life cycle

19:45 - ...spiritual health of the church

19:53 - ...counting vs measuring

20:02 - ...honest evaluation

21:55 - How does the church leadership manage feelings in assessing a church?

24:24 - ...helping people navigate loss and change

25:35 - ...embrace conflict

26:45 - What does a healthy church look like?

26:47 - ...clear sense of how to make disciples who are good for the community

27:30 - ...common life with the community

27:36 - ...see change as God inviting us into a life-death-resurrection journey

28:03 - ...disciple people inside the church so not to export the mission of God to others

30:35 - What is the goal of remissioning a church?

32:51 - What needs to happen for inside-out transformation to take place?

33:19 - ...people discipling someone

34:18 - ...learn to live on mission with God

34:50 - ...live with more purpose and intention

35:25 - How and why is discipleship the mission of the church?

35:57 - ...a...

Brandon has extensive experience living and serving among least-reached peoples in the New York City metropolitan area. His time spent in the Middle East cultivated a deep passion for diaspora Muslims residing in gateway cities.

Brandon's website

• Christians may be hesitate or fearful about engaging with Muslim neighbors
• Muslims might not have significant relationship with Christians
• Heart for Muslims as a Resource

Brandon lives and serves least-reached peoples in the New York City metropolitan area. After spending significant time in the Middle East, he grew to have hearts for diaspora Muslims living in gateway cities. Brandon is the Executive Director of Heart For Muslims, a mission initiative with a passion to love Muslims, equip the Body of Christ, and connect people for gospel-centered service

• Heart for Muslims

03:17 - Calling to minister to Muslims

04:33 - Christians may be hesitate or fearful about engaging with Muslim neighbors

05:07 - ...seek out Heart for Muslims and tour a Muslim neighborhood

07:30 - ...Vision and Mission trip

07:55 - ...Muslims can be in the US for a long time and not have a significant relationship with a Christians

12:55 - A Story of a Meaningful Relationship Illustrates the Power of Faithful Presence in Muslim Community

20:05 - Engaging with Muslims during Ramadan

25:10 - Getting involved with Heart for Muslims

28:39 - HeartForMuslims.com

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Brandon has extensive experience living and serving among least-reached peoples in the New York City metropolitan area. His time spent in the Middle East cultivated a deep passion for diaspora Muslims residing in gateway cities.

Brandon's website

• The Gap Between the Christian and Muslim Communities
• Most Effective Ways for Churches and Believers to Serve Muslims
• Heart for Muslims as a Resource

Brandon lives and serves least-reached peoples in the New York City metropolitan area. After spending significant time in the Middle East, he grew to have hearts for diaspora Muslims living in gateway cities. Brandon is the Executive Director of Heart For Muslims, a mission initiative with a passion to love Muslims, equip the Body of Christ, and connect people for gospel-centered service

• Heart for Muslims

01:21 - Introducing Brandon

03:25 - Calling to minister to Muslims

04:39 - Journey from the Middle East to NYC and Approach to Ministry

05:32 - ...interdenominational seminary

05:43 - ...international students

05:56 - ...studying abroad at Jerusalem University

06:52 - ...teaching ESL at Bethlehem Bible College

07:03 - ...connecting point on seeing all people as God's creation

07:57 - ...the only difference was knowing Jesus

08:39 - ...journey of repentance

09:13 - ...began feeling a calling to serve full-time in the Middle East

10:22 - ...heard of work with displaced Muslims in North America

11:19 - ...neighborhood in northern New Jersey and it's like Palestine

13:46 - ...very limited concerted effort to reach Muslims around NYC with the gospel

14:11 - ...freedom to share the gospel in NY/NJ that's not available in the Middle East

15:10 - ...protection for Muslims who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior

15:34 - Executive Director of Heart for Muslims

16:18 - ...vision for the future of the Heart for Muslims conference

18:07 - The gap between the Christian and Muslim communities

19:11 - Most effective ways for churches and believers to serve Muslims

19:44 - ...lack of knowledge

20:03 - ...focus on a particular local people group

20:40 - ...Step 1: Pray about whom to engage

22:10 - ...Step 2: Who is already doing work among these people?

22:40 - ...the Lord will reveal needs

23:59 - ...Step 3: connect your life to theirs

24:50 - ...Connect and Live with People

25:51 - ...Heart for Muslims as a resource

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Checkout previous episodes, leave a review, drop us a note or support the mission here: oururbanvoices.com

Carl Jamal dedicated his life to serving underserved communities, equipping churches, and empowering individuals through faith-based outreach.

Our conversation today will center around effective urban ministry—how churches can serve inner-city communities with dignity, navigate challenges, and build lasting relationships. We’ll also explore Carl’s unique approach to ministry through hip-hop, prison rehabilitation, and youth outreach.

Carl Jamal's Website

Book Link: Urban Missionary Survival Guide

• People, Not Projects
• Do's and Don'ts of Urban Ministry
• Role of Urban Missionaries in the Church

Carl Jamal is a dedicated community leader and music educator who has overcome significant personal challenges to empower others. Finding refuge in music during a difficult youth, Carl relocated to Atlanta over ten years ago and committed himself to community outreach and charitable work, earning recognition as a respected leader and volunteer. His passion for hip hop fuels his impactful work in prison rehabilitation and youth outreach programs, where he teaches music production and fosters self-expression. Through his resilience and dedication, Carl shares his wisdom and skills, empowering marginalized communities and inspiring positive change.

Born and raised in Baltimore, Carl Jamal faced many challenges in their youth as their mother struggled with addiction and father was absent. Despite these obstacles, Carl Jamal found hope and inspiration in music, channeling their faith and creativity into a pathway toward a brighter future.

After relocating to Atlanta over ten years ago, Carl Jamal dedicated his life to community outreach and charitable work, becoming a respected local leader and volunteer throughout the nation. His passion for hip hop music inspired his life's work in prison rehabilitation, and Youth outreach where he teaches prisoners and at-risk teens the art and technical know-how of music production, writing, and engineering.

Carl Jamal’s unique approach to hip hop education helped him pioneer a new way to reach and connect with local youths. His workshops and events encourage youth to unleash their creativity through hip hop as a means of self-expression and empowerment.

Despite the many setbacks and obstacles Carl Jamal encountered in their young life, they persevered with grace, skill, and ingenuity. Now Carl Jamal shares his wisdom, his love of hip hop, and life skills with others, continuing his journey of empowerment and positivity in the world.

• Carl Jamal's Website
• Book Link: Urban Missionary Survival Guide

01:21 - Introducing Carl Jamal Rumsey

03:21 - How has Carl Jamal's childhood experiences shaped him?

03:57 - ...visited Atlanta and saw church community and Christ

05:43 - ...full-time in urban ministry

06:27 - ...Maverick City Music Initiative

07:07 - ... dedicated life to be a voice for the voiceless

07:25 - Importance of Principle: People, Not Projects (Book)

07:42 - ...church may treat people as a project or a program

09:07 - Top 10 of Do's and Don'ts of Urban Ministry

12:14 - ...why are you serving in urban ministry?

12:36 - Importance of Serving with Dignity

12:54 - ...Where is your heart?

13:25 - Role of Urban Missionaries in the Church

13:40 - ...use urban interests

14:13 - ...be a missionary anywhere

14:20 - ...be mission -minded

15:39 - ...examples of using...