In this episode of the Pay Love Forward Podcast, Dr. Matthew Leavenworth sits down with Penny Ronning, a nationally recognized advocate whose life’s work has helped shape Montana’s response to human trafficking and sexual violence through survivor-centered policy, public safety, and moral leadership.

Rooted in Pay Love Forward’s mission to build compassionate communities for the at-risk and underserved, this conversation moves beyond credentials and into the deeper question Penny returns to again and again: who we are as a moral people. What began with notes and an outline quickly became nearly three hours of honest, grounded dialogue about story, voice, and responsibility.

Together, Penny and Matthew explore how story transforms, how truth can be carried without turning suffering into spectacle, and how a steady, courageous voice can heal the divide that fear and hate keep alive. This episode is not only about what Penny has done, but about the kind of people we are called to be when dignity, courage, and compassion become our measure.

In this episode, I sit down with my dear friend and longtime climbing partner, Alex Saunders. Over the years, Alex and I haveshared ropes and storms, long runouts and longer conversations. We’ve stood together on ledges halfway up the world, and we’ve stood beside each other as best men at our weddings. Our lives have been braided together by miles ofgranite and sandstone and years of trust.

We talk about big walls like The Nose on El Capitan in Yosemite Valley and the Northwest Regular on Half Dome, including our climb on Half Dome after the 2014 rockfall, when we became the first team to cross the new blank section with a lasso toss and help piece the route back together.

But the real story isn’t simply about climbing. It’s about what the mountains revealed, and what friendship had to carry.

At Pay Love Forward, we believe that telling the story within the story is a mechanism for healing. This conversation includes descriptions of trauma, addiction, and witnessing death. These were moments that shaped us and who we havebecome. When we tell them truthfully, they help us recognizeone another’s humanity, and they turn isolation into community.

This episode is about a friendship that refuses to let go and about the mountains that keep calling us back.

My name is Dr. Matthew Leavenworth, founder and director of Pay Love Forward.

This episode was recorded live during a Zoom meeting with small group leaders at Harvest Church on December 21, 2025.Over the past six months, pastor Alex Falder and I have been working with the small group leaders on how story shapes community while taking them through our certification in Mentoring, Coaching, and Leadership Development.

For Alex and I, leadership means going first. During the last session, Alex shared his testimony. This is mine. It is a personal account of where I came from and how I got here. I talked about growing up in and around the church, losing my way, my battle with mental health and addiction, and the long stretch ofdarkness that followed. I talked about the things that kept me tethered to my humanity when I might have otherwise drifted away. I talked about my son’s battle with cancer and the traumatic brain injury I suffered at 37. Ultimately, I talked about what finally allowed to surrender my life to Christ.

This testimony was clipped from a longer discussion. Present were the Harvest small group leaders, my parents, and two people I care very deeply about, Coul Hill and Tammy Zemliska.

Thank you for your support. It meant more than you know.