Why do most layoffs fail? Why is the obsession with "world-class" talent actually hurting your team? And is the advice to "learn to code" already obsolete?In this Jam Session, hosts Natasha Gurevich and Zachary Bachir sit down with Lucien Alziari, former CHRO of Prudential, Maersk, and Avon.Lucien drops masterclass insights on leadership discipline, the "He-Man" toxicity in tech management, and why he believes layoffs are like open-heart surgery: a life-saving measure that fails if you go right back to your bad habits.In this episode, we cover:Stop Chasing "World-Class" Talent: Why you only need elite talent in the specific roles that make you win—and why "good" is enough everywhere else.Lessons from PepsiCo: What a truly strategic procurement team looks like (hint: they understood the value of a can from the mine to the shelf).The Layoff "Lifestyle": Why restructuring fails when companies "take the people out but don't take the work out".The Skills Trap: Why Lucien believes human skills like curiosity and reliability will outlast technical skills like coding in the AI era.The Fear Factor: Why stakeholders "live in fear" of procurement and how to fix your reputation.

Everyone wants to talk about AI, but no one wants to talk about the mess in their data lake. In this episode of Proc & Roll, hosts Conrad Smith, Zachary Bachir, and Natasha Gurevich debate the unsexy reality of data readiness.

Is your organization actually ready for predictive analytics, or are you just "tidying up your bedroom" before it gets messy again?

The team dives deep into why one-off data cleanup projects are a waste of budget, why hiring a PhD Data Scientist might be a massive mistake for your current maturity level, and why the most successful leaders "stay in love with the data" even as they rise through the ranks.

In this episode, we cover:

• The "Bedroom Tidying" Trap: Why cleaning up data without fixing the operating model is a futile exercise.
• Single Version of Truth: How to stop the "I disagree with your numbers" argument that kills every procurement strategy.
• The Talent Debate: Do you need a Data Scientist or a Process Analyst? (The answer might surprise you) .
• "No New Data": A radical strategy to stop data sludge before it enters your system.
• Leadership Advice: Conrad’s plea for leaders to remain connected to the raw information that runs the business.

About Proc & Roll

Proc & Roll is your guide to practical procurement, hosted by industry heavyweights Zachary Bachir, Conrad Smith (CEO, Graphite), and Natasha Gurevich (CEO, Candor Procurement). From fighting inflation to navigating AI, we deliver actionable insights and "Jam Sessions" with world-class leaders to help you turn procurement into a strategic powerhouse.

Why do business stakeholders roll their eyes when you talk about "cost savings"? And why does the next generation of talent treat their career path like a video game?

In this episode, hosts Zachary Bachir and Natasha Gurevich sit down with Ted Baumuller, former Global Leader of Source-to-Pay at Meta (and formerly Cisco & Abbott), for a masterclass on stakeholder alignment and modern leadership.

Ted shares his unconventional journey from hating supply chain ("too many parts!") to leading procurement at one of the world's biggest tech companies. He reveals why "leading with savings" is a trap and how to actually get a seat at the table by speaking the language of Marketing, Engineering, and IT.

In this episode, we cover:

• Stop Leading with Savings: Why stakeholders see you as a "back office cost center" when you talk price—and what to say instead to get their attention.
• The Credibility Equation: Ted's rule for building trust: "You are only as good as your last failure".
• The Gamification of Career: How to manage Gen Z talent who expect to "level up" their career like a video game (and why that's not necessarily a bad thing).
• AI & The "Crap Work": Why you should happily hand over transactional work to AI so you can focus on relationships.
• Career Zig-Zags: Why the best procurement leaders often don't start in procurement—and why cross-functional experience is your superpower.

Whether you are a procurement leader trying to get Engineering to listen to you, or a young professional mapping out your career, this episode is packed with practical wisdom from a leader who has seen it all.About Proc & RollProc & Roll is your guide to practical procurement, hosted by industry heavyweights Zachary Bachir, Conrad Smith (CEO, Graphite), and Natasha Gurevich (CEO, Candor Procurement). From fighting inflation to navigating AI, we deliver actionable insights and "Jam Sessions" with world-class leaders to help you turn procurement into a strategic powerhouse.

Will Procurement Teams Shrink in 2026?

It is time for our retrospective! In this episode of Proc & Roll, hosts Conrad Smith, Natasha Gurevich, and Zachary Bachir look back at their 2025 forecasts and lay out their bold predictions for the year ahead.

We even let an AI agent grade our 2025 scorecards. Did we hit the mark on the "AI Hype Cycle" crashing into the "Data Wall"?

In this episode, we cover:

🔮 The 2025 Scorecard:

• The Data Wall: AI confirms that the hype cycle crashed in Q2 2025 as companies paused projects to fix master data.

• The Amazon Effect: Intake management became the hottest category to solve user experience.

• Savings vs. Value: Why the CFO still demanded hard dollar savings despite the push for "value.

🚀 Top Predictions for 2026:

• The Great Tech Stack Reshuffle: Natasha predicts CPOs will cancel niche subscriptions to self-fund new tools—no incremental budget expected.

• Shrinking Teams: A controversial take that procurement teams will get smaller as manual tasks vanish, shifting focus to high-level strategy.

• Tangible AI Value: Moving past the "shiny toy" phase to asking where AI agents are actually executing work.

• The Gig Expert: The rise of the "fractional" procurement expert to solve the talent crisis.

Plus, Conrad shares an AI-generated "Top 10" list for 2026, including the death of the PowerPoint QBR and the thawing of US-China relations.

In this Jam Session, host Conrad Smith sits down with Jay Sklar from Hub International for a masterclass in high-velocity procurement.

With Hub International acquiring an average of five companies every single month, Jay has developed a battle-tested playbook for rapid integration. He shares how he manages a massive portfolio of 700+ offices while leveraging his company's explosive growth to secure better deals with suppliers.

In this episode, we cover:

🏢 Procurement Meets Real Estate: How Jay manages a dual role and drives "operating expense" savings by optimizing office density and design.

🚀 The M&A Engine: How to use your company's growth story to tell suppliers to "hitch their wagon" to you for better pricing.

🛑 The Nuclear Option: Jay’s strategy for fighting unjustified 2x software price hikes (and why you have to be willing to "rip and replace").

🤖 AI Pragmatism: Why we need less theory and more "show and tell" in the procurement AI sandbox.

💡 Best Advice: Why "being a nice person" is the secret weapon of successful M&A integration.

Whether you are dealing with software inflation or managing a complex real estate portfolio, this episode is packed with practical tips you can use today.

Happy 1st Birthday to Proc & Roll! 🎂🎸

Can you believe it has been a whole year? In this special anniversary episode, hosts Conrad Smith, Natasha Gurevich, and Zach Bachir put aside the interview scripts to reminisce on the journey from episode 1 to 35+.

What started as a random lunch in London turned into a community of "operators in the trenches," and we wouldn't be here without you!

In this episode, we cover:

• The Origin Story: How a cold email and a lunch sparked a deep friendship and a podcast.

• The AI Rewind: Conrad uses Google’s NotebookLM live on the show to analyze our entire year of transcripts, revealing our biggest themes (from Ethics to "Savings vs. Value").

• Best Guest Moments: We look back at game-changing conversations with Dr. Elouise Epstein, Mark Raffan, Alyssa Harvey Dawson, Ana Erickson, Ash Hall, MVK (Michael Van Keulen), Josh Earley, Arnaud de Brux, and David Johnson, plus we preview upcoming episodes with Ted Baumuller and Jay Sklar.

• 2026 Teasers: A sneak peek at upcoming episodes featuring CHROs discussing layoffs and a deep dive into the CFO relationship.

Whether you are a CPO or a new category manager, thank you for rocking with us this year. Here’s to many more! 🥂

"We jumped off a cliff and built the plane on the way down." ✈️

That is how Arnaud, Head of Indirect Procurement at BIC, describes the massive challenge of building a non-GMO supply chain from scratch in just 18 months.

In this Jam Session, Arnaud joins Conrad to explore how an industrial engineering mindset can transform procurement from a transactional function into a strategic engine for growth. They discuss how to look beyond the price tag to see the total cost of ownership—whether you are buying machinery for a factory or software for HR.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• The Danone Case Study: The incredible story of how Arnaud helped build a non-GMO milk supply chain—changing everything from the cow feed to the factory production lines—in under two years to drive competitive advantage.

• Engineering the Indirects: How to apply "factory floor" logic (like continuous improvement and maintenance planning) to complex indirect categories like Marketing and IT.

• Escaping the "Busy Work": Why automating tail spend and tactical admin is the only way to free up your team for true Supplier Relationship Management (SRM).

• The 2-to-1 Rule: Arnaud’s golden rule for career growth: "We have two ears and one mouth, so we should listen twice as much as we speak.

• Taking Risks: Why you should always volunteer for the projects that scare you—because "if your goals don't scare you, they aren't big enough".

If you want to learn how to break down silos and engineer value, this jam session is for you.

"Don't let IT select the technology." 🛑That is just one of the hard-hitting pieces of advice from Michael Van Keulen (MVK), Chief Customer Officer at Green Cabbage and former CPO at Coupa, Lululemon, and VF Corporation.In this jam session, MVK joins the Proc & Roll team to break down the explosion of the procurement tech market. With thousands of solutions now available, how do you choose the right stack? MVK argues that the days of the 500-question RFP are over and that tech selection must be treated as a business project, not a procurement one.In this episode, you’ll learn:The "Platform vs. Point Solution" Verdict: Why MVK believes you need a core "single source of truth" augmented by best-of-breed apps—and why trying to stitch together 10 different solutions is crazy.How NOT to Buy Tech: Why running a massive RFP is a mistake, and why you should focus on defining the business problem (like store visibility) rather than feature lists.The IT Trap: Why IT should be a partner, but never the decision-maker for your technology roadmap.AI Predictions: Why MVK and the team believe AI will eventually automate 50-80% of tactical procurement work, freeing us to finally focus on strategy.Implementation Secrets: The three top "Do's" for a successful rollout: Involve stakeholders early, prioritize people/process over tech, and treat it as a cross-functional business project.If you are navigating a digital transformation or struggling to get budget for new tools, this episode is your playbook.About Proc & RollProc & Roll is your guide to practical procurement, where we make procurement rock and roll. Hosted by industry veterans Natasha Gurevich, Conrad Smith, and Zachary Bachir, we tackle the biggest topics and trends to help you level up your procurement game.