The podcast relaunches with an interview with Sisters Theresa Aletheia Noble and Danielle Victoria Lussier. They are the Sisters of the Little Way of Beauty, Truth, and Goodness, a new, “Private association of the faithful intending to become a religious institute.” (That’s church language for, The Sisters are in the yearslong process of officially being recognized as a new order of nuns.) The Sisters’ stated mission focuses on, “Listening and solidarity with people on the fringes of the Church, especially those who have been wounded, scandalized, or abused by members of the Church.”

I wanted to interview them for many reasons: I was struck by their courage in speaking out about the grooming and abuse they experienced at the hands of a spiritual director. The power of their new audio documentary podcast “Descent into Light”-- which draws on their experiences as survivors to illustrate the broader picture of how adult abuse unfolds in spiritual settings– has hooked me and Bethany as we consider how to build a ministry and small organization with transparency and accountability.

On an even more universal level, I was drawn to their perspective on finding vocation and belonging within an institution that has harmed them. How do you relate to an institution, even after it has harmed you? Can you stay with integrity, without your presence tacitly supporting the systems and leaders that failed you?

I believe their reflections about hearing a call - in the darkness of their suffering and as a response to the harm they endured - is a beacon for all of us who wonder how to follow Jesus within the church. I believe their reflections on choosing to remain in the church, even after its flawed systems enabled abuse against them, are valuable to hear for all of us wondering if and how to find our place in the ancient and imperfect institution.

At the website Sisters of the Little Way you can read more about their journey to leave their former order and start a new one, including time spent ministering to the homeless on the streets of Portland, Oregon, and studying at the Gregorian in Rome to receive a diploma in Safeguarding; learn how to support their mission; follow their writing on Substack; and listen to their podcast.

I hope you find in this interview new understanding about abuse in spiritual settings, practical suggestions for helping survivors and preventing future abuse, and a doorway to the Sisters’ beautiful and important podcast and ministry.

The Rev. Dr. Michael Woolf is Senior Pastor of Lake Street Baptist Church in Evanston, Illinois as well as the author of Sanctuary and Subjectivity: Thinking Theologically About Whiteness and Sanctuary.

In a moment when the question of how the church supports the immigrant community is of utmost importance, I wanted to speak to him because of the many perspectives he holds on that question. As a pastor he can speak about his church’s successes and shortcoming providing sanctuary to an immigrant family for the last ten years. As an academic and ethnographer who has studied the sanctuary movement he can speak to the opportunities and dangers of partnerships between predominantly White faith communities and immigrants. What are the difficult power dynamics? Can they be avoided or worked with in healthy ways?

We talked about Michael’s joint call to ministry and ethnography; the racial dynamics of Sanctuary; the screening process for taking in recipients of Sanctuary and the ethics of raising the voice of the “ideal migrant”; if and how Sanctuary as a tactic might still be effective in 2025; what his congregation loves most about hosting a Sanctuary family; Michael’s own prayer practice for examining his conscience around Whiteness; and how Michael became the rare White Baptist pastor from Alabama with a primary ministry focus on racial justice.

If you want to read more of Michael’s writing there are links to his book and numerous articles here:

- Michael’s webpage with links to his writing and sermons

- Sanctuary and Subjectivity: Thinking Theologically About Whiteness and Sanctuary

For any person of faith troubled and outraged by President Trump’s promise to deport 11 million people and wondering “What can I do?” “How can I be effective?” “How do I plug in?” listen to the Rev. Dr. Alexia Salvatierra. In this interview I talk about these questions and more with the organizer, author, Lutheran pastor, and professor.

Alexia’s lengthy list of books and articles can be found at the Fuller Seminary website where she has taught since 2014 and is Academic Dean for Centro Latino and Associate Professor of Mission and Global Transformation. I reached out to her, however, not primarily because of her academic accolades but because of her extensive experience leading faith-based organizations for immigrants rights. As it says in the introduction of her newest book, God’s Resistance, “Salvatierra offers a firsthand and behind-the-scenes glimpse and understanding of the inner workings of the U.S. Sanctuary Movement. Dr. Salvatierra was a young member of one of the first congregations to declare sanctuary in 1980, a founding member of the New Sanctuary Movement in the 2000s, and an ongoing leader in the development of other faith-based approaches to the immigration crisis.”

We talk not only about ethical and effective support of migrants in the US at this moment but also about her formation and call as madrina, or godmother, of faith-based movements for immigrant rights; the theology of the border and the limits of Christian love; her involvement in the Sanctuary movement of the 80s and how that experience shaped Alexia to lead the New Sanctuary Movement beginning in 2007; the divide between Right and Left in today’s media environment around immigration and the role of immigrant churches in bridging it; the tactics she expects Trump to take against migrants and which will be most pernicious; how White churches can support immigrant churches; and how as Christians “all children are our children”.

You can see a reference list of legal terms, organizations, and leaders in the movement in my post about the episode at duncanhilton.net