In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Diane Chadwick-Jones, a former BP safety leader and long-time researcher whose work has shaped how organizations think about safety incentives.

Diane explains why linking pay and bonuses to injury rates often creates unintended consequences, including suppressed reporting and reduced learning. Drawing on years of internal and external research, she shows how incentives can reinforce belief systems that feel right but undermine safety in practice.

She shares how BP and other high-hazard organizations have moved away from injury-based bonuses, what replaced them and why peer recognition, transparency and supportive leadership matter more than annual rewards.

This conversation offers EHS professionals practical insight into influencing senior leaders, changing belief systems over time and building conditions where people feel safe to speak up about problems before they escalate.

Diane’s published research on safety incentives: Rewarding safety performance: Improving safety or maintaining beliefs?

Find out more about Diane’s work: Diane Chadwick-Jones / Safety Leadership / Human Performance

Energy Institute videos Diane recommends:

The modern view of incident causation

Human performance - what does it mean?

Walk through a task to prevent incidents

Safety leadership in the field

Diane Chadwick-Jones on LinkedIn: Diane Chadwick-Jones | LinkedIn

Safety Labs is created by Safety Products Global, the world's leading manufacturer of safety knives. Through our trusted brands, Klever, Slice and PHC, we empower companies to prevent injuries by providing safer cutting tools for every material and application. Find us at www.safetyproducts.global

If you have any questions, please email us at safetylabs@safetyproducts.global

In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Leslie Rex Stockel, Associate Professor of Fire Protection and Safety Engineering Technology at Oklahoma State University and a long-time leader in safety education.

Drawing on decades of experience and teaching, Leslie reflects on how safety ideas evolved from Taylor and Heinrich to behavior-based safety and human performance. And assesses the impact of approaches like safety third.

She questions whether leaders are patient enough to give new approaches a chance and warns against the profession’s tendency to chase silver bullets rather than focusing on sustained incremental improvement.

Leslie explores the growing imbalance between cultural and technical safety, warning that strong people skills cannot compensate for weak technical foundations.

Throughout the conversation, she offers candid, practical advice for EHS professionals to assess their own gaps, strengthen both sides of their practice and focus on what truly keeps people safe at work.

Find out more about Leslie’s work: Leslie Stockel | About | Oklahoma State University

OSHA’s website: Home | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

ASSP website: ASSP - American Society of Safety Professionals

Leslie Rex Stockel on LinkedIn: Leslie Rex Stockel, PhD, CSP, SMP, FASSP | LinkedIn

Safety Labs is created by Safety Products Global, the world's leading manufacturer of safety knives. Through our trusted brands, Klever, Slice and PHC, we empower companies to prevent injuries by providing safer cutting tools for every material and application. Find us at www.safetyproducts.global

If you have any questions, please email us at safetylabs@safetyproducts.global

In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Martijn Flinterman, a sociologist, researcher and author, specializing in how organizations deal with safety. Drawing on the work of Niklas Luhmann, Martijn challenges many assumptions that underpin traditional safety management.

He explores why focusing primarily on accidents can obscure crucial safety insights, and why categories such as “safe” and “unsafe” often create blind spots. Martijn explains how systems manage risk through distinctions, narratives and routines, and how these can unintentionally suppress reflection, dissent and learning.

The conversation also covers interesting ideas including harmony bias, constructive distrust and humble confidence. Martijn argues that too much trust can become negligent, silence can itself be a risk, and safety professionals must learn to act decisively while acknowledging that their understanding is always partial.

This wide-ranging discussion offers EHS professionals a sociological lens to better understand complexity, challenge comfortable assumptions and create space for critical reflection in safety systems.

Learn more about Martijn’s work: Unter Soziologen / Among Sociologists

Martijn’s book featured in this interview: Managing Safety in Complexity

Luhmann’s most accessible writing: Introduction to systems theory : Luhmann, Niklas, 1927-1998

Martijn also recommends the sociologist Stefan Kuhl: Stefan Kühl – Uklitag

Martijn Flinterman on LinkedIn: Martijn Flinterman | LinkedIn

Safety Labs is created by Safety Products Global, the world's leading manufacturer of safety knives. Through our trusted brands, Klever, Slice and PHC, we empower companies to prevent injuries by providing safer cutting tools for every material and application. Find us at www.safetyproducts.global

If you have any questions, please email us at safetylabs@safetyproducts.global