Craig Allen wrote the Skittles spot where a man accidentally murders his family with rainbow candy. He helped make the Old Spice response campaign ; 286 videos in 36 hours, one every 7 minutes, until they broke YouTube. Then he left Wieden+Kennedy, asked Dan Wieden what to call his new agency, and got told every name was stupid.

This week on Second Wind, the founder and CCO of CALLEN sits down with Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about how to sell ideas that scare clients to death.

Inside the episode:

- Why the best risky ideas are “stupid smart” — and how to make a CMO feel dumb for not buying them

- The real story behind the Skittles Touch shoot: explosives, cops, a $$$$ glass desk filled with hundreds of thousands of real Skittles, and one PA running through the shot

- How a six-person writers’ room turned Old Spice into the fastest creative operation in advertising history

- Why Dan Wieden made him put his own name on the agency (and why it changed how he works)

- The case for fun as a strategic weapon, not a vibe

- What independent agencies have to do now that the holding cos have stopped pretending to care about creativity

Craig has won two Cannes Grand Prix, the Grand Effie, Best in Show at The One Show, two black D&AD pencils, an Emmy, and was once named one of the 50 sexiest creatives in the world by Creativity Magazine. We do not let him forget it.

Second Wind is a Webby Honoree podcast at the intersection of creativity, leadership, and advertising. Hosted by Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch of AKA. New episodes fortnightly.

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Eric Kallman is the co-founder and chief creative officer of Erich & Kallman, the independent agency behind standout work for brands like Reese’s, King’s Hawaiian, Franzia, Toyota and more. Before that, he helped create some of the most iconic advertising of the last two decades, including Old Spice, Skittles, Little Caesars, Kayak and Ragu. Erich & Kallman was named Ad Age’s 2024 Small Agency of the Year and was later recognized as a 2025 A-List standout.

In this episode of Second Wind, Eric talks about how Old Spice almost died before it changed culture, why absurd work only works when the product truth is dead simple, and what most young creatives are skipping when they chase shortcuts. He gets into the discipline behind funny advertising, the value of silence in the creative process, why six weeks and 250 scripts used to be normal, and how AI can help if it gives creatives more time to think instead of less.

Topics include Old Spice, Skittles, creative discipline, copywriting, campaign craft, small agencies, advertising fundamentals, AI in creative work, and what it takes to make funny ads that actually sell.

Micah Walker, co-founder of Bear Meets Eagle on Fire, joins Second Wind for a sharp conversation on what it really takes to make better work.

He talks about building an agency that refuses to become a smaller version of the big networks, why caring too hard is a feature not a flaw, why the best ideas should never arrive with a safety option, and how great production turns good thinking into something people can actually feel.

This one is about creative conviction, craft, culture, and the kind of standards that make the work unforgettable.