Matthew Vines has spent many years making the case that Christians can and should embrace same-sex marriage — his book God and the Gay Christian helped a generation of people reconcile their faith and sexuality. So when he recently distanced himself from queer theology, first in a conversation on the Uncommon Ground podcast and then in a New York Times piece titled "I'm Gay, Not Queer. It Matters," it set off a firestorm.

Karl Hand — pastor at Crave Church (Metropolitan Community Church), theologian, and longtime friend of the show — joins Will to sit inside the mess of it. This is a conversation that tries to hold two things at once: real, substantive pushback on where Matthew's argument goes wrong, and real gratitude for what his earlier work made possible. Along the way, Karl untangles what "queer" actually means across identity, activism, and theory, three things Karl argues Matthew's article quietly collapses into one.

A note before you press play: this conversation touches on trauma connected to church rejection, queerphobia, and sexual ethics. Take care of yourself, and feel entirely free to skip this one if it's not what you need right now.

The Matthew Vines NYT article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/30/opinion/queer-gay-rights.html

Books Karl references:

Butler, Judith (1990). Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity. New York: Routledge.

Rubin, Gayle (1984). "Thinking Sex: Notes for a Radical Theory of the Politics of Sexuality." In Pleasure and Danger: Exploring Female Sexuality. Boston: Routledge.

Halperin, David M. (1995) Saint Foucault: Towards a gay hagiography. Oxford University Press.

Matthew Vines quoted Halperin without providing broader context. Here are those quotes in their original context:

“Queer is by definition whatever is at odds with the normal, the legitimate, the dominant. There is nothing in particular which it necessarily refers. It is an identity without an essence. "Queer," then, demarcates not a positivity but a positionality vis-a-vis the normative—a positionality that is not restricted to lesbians and gay men but is in fact available to anyone who is or who feels marginalized because of her or his sexual practices: it could include some married couples without children, for example, or even (who knows?) some married couples with children—with, perhaps, very naughty children.” p. 62

“Perhaps I should say that I don't intend this argument to be understood as advocating the adoption of the term "queer" in preference to the term "gay" or as providing partisan support for the politics of Queer Nation. First of all, it is not for me to suggest what words the members of sexual constituencies should use to designate or identify themselves. Second, the only thing that need be said about Queer Nation in this context is that it is significantly less queer, in the sense in which I am using the term, than, say, ACT UP, whose style of direct-action politics and activist glamor Queer Nation has attempted to replicate for the purpose of creating a movement of young lesbian and gay radicals defined by no other issue than that of sexual orientation.” p. 63

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Today is a replay of one of the most listened-to Spiritual Misfits episodes of all time — not because of a spike when it dropped, but because people just keep coming back to it. Every week, someone finds this conversation and sends it to a friend, or stumbles across it scrolling back through the feed.

Becca, Caro and Will discuss the question: for those of us who grew up in evangelical Christian households, how are we raising our kids today?

Even if that's not your exact story — not everyone grew up evangelical, not everyone has kids — there's something about reflecting on inheritance: what we keep, what we leave behind, and why it matters to think carefully about both.

This episode is three years old, which means we're all in slightly different places than we were then. We're planning to revisit this topic in an upcoming episode — and before we do, we'd love to hear from you. Got a question or a story about how parenting and faith has shifted for you over time? Email hello@spiritualmisfits.com.au.

Want to reach out and let us know your thoughts or suggestions for the show? Send us a message here; we’d love to hear from you.

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When people ask Jessica Morthorpe what gives her hope, she gets a little wary. Sometimes it feels like they're really asking for permission to stop worrying — to feel better so they don't have to act. And that's why hope is complicated. Offered too cheaply, it becomes a sedative.

In this episode, Will and Caro speak with Jess — founder of the Five Leaf Eco Awards — about sitting honestly in that tension. How can we nurture hope that grows through participation, community and action?

Along the way the three explore why caring for creation was never a fringe issue, how a community garden can become a place that literally saves lives, sitting with climate grief without rushing past it, and the ancient gifts the church has been carrying all along — that might be exactly what an anxious and lonely world needs now.

Connect with more of Jessica's work at:
https://fiveleafecoawards.org/ https://climatepastoralcare.thinkific.com/

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