Swarfcast cover art

Swarfcast

Swarfcast

Written by: Today's Machining World
Listen for free

About this listen

 Noah Graff, used machine tool dealer and editor of Today’s Machining World, interviews machining company owners, equipment gurus, and experts with insight to help and entertain people working in the machining field. We discuss topics such as how to find quality employees, customer acquisition, negotiation, and the best CNC equipment options for specific jobs. Economics Leadership Management & Leadership
Episodes
  • Be THE Leader, with Ryan Avery–EP 264

    Be THE Leader, with Ryan Avery–EP 264
    Apr 28 2026
    Sometimes I feel like I’m a good leader. I think I’ve always believed at least that I could be. The insecure statement comes from my conventional view of leading–taking charge to mobilize other people in our businesses, or as a dad or as a thought leader. But my podcast guest Ryan Avery, gave me a new view of what it means to be a leader. Something more universal and applicable to my whole life. He says the key to being a leader in any facet of your life is to go from being “A” to “THE.” I get to be THE podcaster. I am THE dad. THE machinery dealer. THE leader. For him, leadership is influencing others by connecting with them, rather than merely persuading. THE puts you in the clear confident frame of mind that enables you to thrive in your goals and causes others to gravitate to you. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link. . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Main Points A leader convinces. THE leader connects No matter the culture, people don’t like to be convinced, but when someone connects with them, they gravitate toward that person naturally. Ryan says anyone can sell anything, anyone can motivate people. The difference is how you do it. When you lead through connection rather than persuasion, you feel good about what you’re putting out there and so does the person on the other side. You’re already in leadership Ryan defines leadership simply as anyone who influences someone. So there’s no need to want to be a leader. You already are. Whether it’s mobilizing a team, raising a kid, or convincing someone to put a little more chicken on your burrito without charging you extra. You’re influencing people constantly. Leadership isn’t a destination you reach one day. You’re already in it. The only question is what and who you want to influence. Step forward Moving your body forward tells your biology it’s okay to approach. You speak a little louder, smile more, engage better with eye contact. Moving backward does the opposite. It signals retreat, confusion, and puts you in a position of less power. The concept is called embodied cognition. A few months ago, ">Ryan had me demonstrate it in front of a room at the PMPA conference. Same words, two different directions. I felt the difference instantly. In our interview when I recounted the story, even just imagining myself moving backward and then forward changed how I felt. Stop saying “just” and “I think” These words shrink what you’re about to say before you’ve even said it. They signal uncertainty before you’ve given anyone a reason to doubt you. Cut them and notice how different you sound and feel. Turn questions into statements “How am I going to grow this business?” becomes “I’m growing this business.” Statements direct you toward action. Questions keep you in your head. Most of the time you don’t need to think more. You need to do more. Change your inner dialogue Ryan studies psycholinguistics, how the words we use shape the thoughts we have and determine the actions we take. The shift from A to THE starts inside your head. It’s not about being perfect or being the best. He points out that Gandhi wasn’t perfect. But Gandhi was THE leader for millions of people. Your THE doesn’t require perfection. It just requires showing up as the fullest version of yourself in whatever it is you do.
    Show More Show Less
    51 mins
  • Courage to Be Rubbish – EP 263

    Courage to Be Rubbish – EP 263
    Apr 14 2026
    “God, I am so NOT relaxed right now. But I need to just embrace what I read recently — you need the courage to be rubbish. Just relax, stop worrying about everything being perfect, and do it.” I said that to my dad, Lloyd, as we sat down to record our podcast last week–which turned out to be the opposite of rubbish. We spoke our minds. What it means to live in the gain versus the gap, Lloyd’s honest relationship with pessimism and age, and why we both keep showing up to do this work. Oh, and our latest feelings about the Cubs. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link. . View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Episode Transcript Noah: God, I am so NOT relaxed right now. But I need to just embrace what I read recently — you need the courage to be rubbish. Just relax, stop worrying about everything being perfect, and do it. So that’s what we’re going to do today. Lloyd: I will attempt not to be total rubbish. Just partial rubbish. Noah: You don’t want to try to be rubbish — you want to feel okay with being rubbish. Are you okay with being rubbish? Lloyd: It’s difficult to accept. What I really want to be able to say is: today has been a good day. I struggle with that sometimes. Noah: I’m glad to hear that, because you came in an hour ago kind of like me, unsettled. Do you feel grateful today? Lloyd: I do. I feel grateful for having this day. Noah: I just finished listening to this book about gratitude, 30 days, a different angle each day. The one I listened to this morning: be grateful for moments before they happen, not after. Thank the world for this unforeseen, magnificent thing that’s about to happen, even if it seems mundane. So today on my commute, I said: thank you for the magnificent thing that’s going to happen while I’m sending out quotes to customers. Lloyd: I’m grateful to be here with you, passing ideas back and forth, disagreeing, trying to come up with something provocative and useful. Noah: You wanted to talk about why you’re still in the machinery business at 81. Why are you? Lloyd: The question I ask myself every day is: why am I so damn obsessed about age? About being 81. How did I get to live to be 81, and am I still any good at what I’m pretending to do every day? Noah: That’s BS. You’re not pretending anything. Lloyd: There is an aspect of what I’m fighting against: my negativity and pessimism. A leader beset by negativity doesn’t do a good job. I fear my fear about how the business is going to do is self-defeating. Noah: What’s interesting is that business has been so rough for many months, and yet you keep getting right back up. Not complaining. Finding optimism in the next thing. To me, that makes you an amazing optimist. Lloyd: Depends on the day. Every day in business you get hit with problems, with disappointment in others, in yourself. The hard part, and it gets worse as you get older, is staying buoyant. Knowing the next day could be better. Noah: And that’s where the courage to be rubbish comes in. Just push through. Noah: I woke up this morning feeling kind of yucky too. A deal isn’t working, I’m questioning my purpose. But here’s what I do: every night before bed, I write down my wins for the day. 99% of the time, there’s something genuinely positive, a good call with a customer, time with family, learning something new. And every day I write down one serendipitous thing that happened. When you name it, things have more meaning. Lloyd: (on age 81) Some days I think: Lloyd, you’re so fortunate. This is 18 years of gravy after a heart attack, enjoy each day. And other days I think: 81, I’m almost out of days, and that’s depressing precisely because I’m enjoying each one. I don’t want to be out. Noah: That’s living in the gap versus the gain right there. Lloyd: Explain the “Gap in the Gain” concept. Noah: Great book. Highly recommend it. It’s by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. The idea: high achievers set ideals, “I want to be rich, I want to be happy,” and they never feel like they’ve arrived because the ideal keeps moving. That’s living in the gap. But if you actually define what a win looks like and document when you win, you start living in the gain. It totally changes your mindset. It’s why it’s powerful to look back at the end of the day before you sleep, and Sullivan even suggests writing down a win for the next day before it’s happened. Lloyd: Write down what you’ve won when you haven’t experienced it yet? Noah: I know, mysterious. I almost never do it. But it ties back to being ...
    Show More Show Less
    36 mins
  • Manufacturing Acquisitions with Purpose, with Mike Payne (Part 1)-EP 232 (Best of Swarfcast)

    Manufacturing Acquisitions with Purpose, with Mike Payne (Part 1)-EP 232 (Best of Swarfcast)
    Apr 7 2026
    On today’s podcast, I’m talking with Mike Payne, owner of Hill Manufacturing and Fabrication in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, to peek inside the mind of a prolific acquirer of manufacturing companies. Before purchasing Hill in 2018, Mike spent 20 years in M&A, orchestrating over 100 deals across nearly every industry. Since then, Mike has acquired four machine shops, and he’s constantly scouting for more opportunities to expand. What struck me about Mike isn’t just his deal-making successes – it’s his genuine passion for manufacturing. While some people get caught up in the game of acquisition deals, Mike seems to remain committed to his stated purpose, making quality parts and building lasting companies. *********** Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link. View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Main Points Working in the M&A Industry Mike Payne’s career began in the mid-1990s when he graduated from the University of Tulsa with a computer science degree. He started a software company specializing in shop floor data collection, working with manufacturers during the era when Walmart was pushing barcode implementation. This early exposure to manufacturing sparked his interest in seeing how things were made, from tires to fishing reels. After successfully growing and selling his software company in 2003, Payne transitioned into private equity, where he spent 15 years buying companies across various industries. What set him apart in the M&A space was his approach: rather than just completing deals and moving on, he would typically take board positions or operational roles in the acquired companies to ensure their success. He completed over 100 deals during this period, attributing some of his success to being an outsider who asked “dumb questions” that often led to valuable insights. Purchasing Hill Manufacturing and Fabrication In 2018, Payne purchased Hill Manufacturing and Fabrication, a company he’d known for 30 years. The company, established in 1976, had become “tired” under an owner looking to sell, with minimal reinvestment in equipment and growth. Payne saw this as an opportunity to revitalize a solid business. Since his acquisition, the company has doubled in size through both organic growth and the acquisition of four additional shops. What distinguishes Payne’s approach to business is his complex motivation. While he openly acknowledges his desire to make money (“I’m a capitalist”), he emphasizes that his greater satisfaction comes from creating opportunities for others. At 51, he could coast or even retire, but he continues growing his business because he enjoys developing his team and seeing them succeed. He shares examples like watching a 27-year-old manager building his first home and starting a family. Payne also maintains strong relationships with the previous owners of companies he’s acquired. He shared a story about receiving a photo from a couple whose shop he bought in 2022. While he was at IMTS viewing the latest manufacturing technology, they sent him a picture from their retirement travels of an old lathe in an Arizona campground. This exemplified his goal of not just making profitable deals, but helping owners successfully transition into their next life phase. Philosophy of Business Growth The conversation also touched on the philosophy of business growth. While Payne acknowledges that maintaining a steady, non-growing business can be viable, he believes companies need to at least stay current with technology and market demands to avoid slow decline. He shared an example of a recent acquisition target that had gradually declined from $2 million to $1.2 million in annual revenue because they weren’t reinvesting or replacing lost customers. Throughout the interview, Payne’s enthusiasm for manufacturing shines through. He describes the satisfaction of seeing raw materials transformed into finished products and particularly enjoys giving shop tours to people unfamiliar with manufacturing, as their fascination helps him see the magic of manufacturing through fresh eyes. He compared this to hiking with his daughter, who helps him notice beautiful details he might otherwise miss in his rush to reach the destination. The discussion reveals Payne as someone who has successfully merged the analytical skills of a private equity investor with a genuine passion for manufacturing and people development, creating a business approach that values both profitability and purpose. Questions: If you were to acquire a manufacturing company, what would you be looking for? What ...
    Show More Show Less
    37 mins
No reviews yet