In this episode of The CX Iconoclast, Richard Owen hosts Bill Staikos, a CX and EX leader with more than 20 years of experience helping organizations move beyond dashboards and into delivering tangible business outcomes. Drawing on his unique perspective from both the vendor and buyer sides of the industry, Bill discusses why too many companies are still stuck in outdated models of customer experience - focused on surveys and metrics - rather than designing solutions with customers at the center. The conversation covers the pitfalls of “product-led growth” thinking, the impact of AI on both customer experience and the workforce, and why the best companies are those that operationalize CX in partnership with technology, operations, and employee experience.

Bill and Richard comment on the growing gap between companies that innovate and those that stagnate, with Bill arguing that success will come from action-oriented, integrated approaches rather than overcomplicated frameworks. They discuss the risks of shortsighted cost-cutting in the AI era, the importance of moral responsibility toward employees, and the opportunity for AI to help organizations finally break free from decades of CX mediocrity. Packed with candid insights, industry anecdotes, and a challenge to rethink old paradigms, this conversation offers practical and thought-provoking guidance for leaders who want to achieve meaningful change in customer and employee experiences alike.

With over 20 years of expertise in CX & EX, Bill is the founder and managing partner of Be Customer Led, a consultancy that helps companies stop guessing what customers want, start building around what customers actually do, and drive real business outcomes. His expertise has focused on developing and growing teams that deliver CX strategy and execution plans to achieve real business outcomes (not just delivering NPS dashboards), deliver a change management platform to make these outcomes sustainable, and activate leadership participation.

He is also the founder of two podcasts, with his latest, The Multimodal Experience, focusing on how advanced capabilities and technology, from AI and spatial computing to extended reality and wearables, will change the way we engage with and buy from brands every day and how we operate within the companies we work for.

Find out how predictive CX analytics can help your business: https://ocxcognition.com/

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In this episode of the CX Iconoclast podcast, Richard Owen speaks with Tey Bannerman, a McKinsey partner focused on deploying AI in large enterprises to improve customer retention and growth. Bannerman emphasizes that AI should solve real human and business problems rather than just serve as a technological novelty. He critiques the reflexive use of AI for cost-cutting and job elimination, urging companies to instead prioritize long-term value creation and enhanced customer experience. He shares a compelling case study of a B2B payments company that shifted from cost-cutting to a customer-centric strategy using predictive analytics to reduce churn, highlighting the importance of engaging frontline employees in AI design and adoption.

Their conversation also covers the dual challenges of employee resistance and leadership skepticism when adopting AI. Bannerman notes that fear of job loss and poorly designed tools can undermine adoption unless employees are engaged as co-creators. At the executive level, the challenge is often a cultural reliance on instinct over data, especially when dealing with AI-generated predictions. Bannerman advocates a balanced approach where leadership combines intuition with data to scale decision-making. As he says, "Predictive data gives leaders scale. Intuition alone can’t reach 100,000 customers."

Both he and Owen agree that the way AI is communicated, taught, and integrated - especially through accessible, language-based interfaces - will determine whether organizations succeed or fall behind in what they call one of the most transformative shifts in business history.

Tey Bannerman is a Partner at McKinsey & Company and the former Head of McKinsey Design Europe, where he blends software engineering, human-centered design, and strategic leadership to help major organizations implement AI solutions that deliver real business value. With over two decades of experience, spanning roles as a code‑writing software engineer, startup product designer, and digital agency leader, he has led AI‑powered transformation projects across sectors including banking, retail, fashion, and fintech, always anchored in human needs, ethical design, and tangible outcomes, rather than chasing technological novelty

Find out how predictive CX analytics can help your business: https://ocxcognition.com/

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What if your KPIs could talk back—and guide your business forward? In this episode, Richard Owen and Brian Curry of OCX Cognition, and MIT’s Michael Schrage explore how AI is transforming not just customer experience metrics, but the very nature of leadership and organizational capability. They suggest why so many companies stick with legacy KPIs despite major shifts in tech, and how conversational AI and “chat-modified” metrics are helping innovative leaders turn passive data into proactive guidance. Schrage introduces the revolutionary idea of building digital twins of your KPIs—giving organizations a GPS for where they are and where they should go next.

Michael, Brian and Richard make a critical distinction between insights and actionable insights, cover the cultural silos that hold companies back, and explain how AI-enabled measurement can drive faster decisions, and customer-led growth. With real-world examples and global perspective, Schrage challenges leaders to move beyond dashboards to dynamic dialogue with their data. Whether you're leading a digital transformation or just beginning to explore AI, this episode offers a compelling roadmap for turning metrics into momentum.

Michael Schrage is a research fellow at the MIT Sloan School of Management's Initiative on the Digital Economy and a visiting fellow at Imperial College London’s Innovation & Entrepreneurship program. His work focuses on the intersection of innovation, AI, and digital transformation, particularly how organizations use experimentation, modeling, and analytics to drive business growth. Schrage has advised Fortune 500 companies, startups, and government agencies on innovation strategy and has authored several influential books, including Who Do You Want Your Customers to Become? and The Innovator’s Hypothesis. His insights on AI, behavioral economics, and digital experimentation make him a leading voice in business and technology

Find out how predictive CX analytics can help your business: https://ocxcognition.com/

Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ocxcognition/

Connect with Richard Owen on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/richard-owen-98ba3