In this episode, we explore the rare but inspiring career path from Production Director to Executive Pastor.

We are joined by Dave Clark of Fellowship Church (Grapevine) to discuss how he transitioned from technical leadership to executive leadership. We break down the difference between treating ministry as a "job" versus a "calling," and Dave shares practical advice on how tech directors can build trust with senior pastors and get "unstuck" when they feel stagnant.

In this episode you'll hear:

0:00 Toby’s Church Planting Story

6:30 Dave Clark (Fellowship Church Grapevine) Joins

14:30 Defining Ministry: A Job vs. A Calling

17:00 Career Path: From Tech Director to Executive Pastor

21:45 How to Minister to Production Volunteers

27:00 Getting "Unstuck" in Your Ministry Career

29:00 Building Trust with Senior Leadership

38:00 Pastor Ed Young’s Wildest Production Requests

48:00 Staying Calm During a Tech Disaster

53:00 Avoiding "Imaginary Arguments"

54:15 Tech Takeaway: Ask Questions to Understand

55:45 C3 Conference Preview

You can sign up for the C3 Conference with this link to get a special rate discount from $229 to $99.

https://brushfire.com/fellowship/c3conference2026/598770/register?typeCode=C3COMEBACK

Get Toby's new book "Sacred Spaces, Modern Production" here.

Resources for your Church Tech Ministry

• Sell Us Gear: Does your church have used gear that you need to convert into new ministry dollars? We can make you an offer here.
• Buy Our Gear: Do you need some production gear but lack the budget to buy new gear? You can shop our gear store here.

Connect with us:

• Sales Bulletin: Get better deals than the public and get them earlier too here!
• Early Service: Get our best gear before it goes live on our site here.
• Instagram: Hangout with us on the gram here!
• Reviews: Leaving us a review on the podcast player you're listening to us on really helps the show. If you enjoyed this episode, you can say thank you with a review!

In this episode, we sit down with Matt Potesta, System Engineer for artists like Lauren Daigle and Tate McRae. We dive deep into the high-stakes world of touring production, covering everything from how to land your first big road gig to the critical lessons every local church can learn about PA system tuning and system design.

Whether you're looking to upgrade your sanctuary's sound or considering a jump into the professional touring industry, Matt shares the "real-world" costs of professional audio services and how to protect your health while working in a high-demand industry.

In this episode you'll hear:

01:00 Banter: Surprise Parties and Tech Interventions

05:50 Guest Interview: Matt Potesta (Lauren Daigle & Tate McRae Tour)

08:00 Career Roadmap: Landing a World-Class Touring Production Job

13:00 Church Production vs. Touring: Pros, Cons, and Key Differences

19:00 How to "Pay Your Dues" and Break into the Pro Audio Industry

23:30 Touring System Design: Applying Road Lessons to Local Venues

26:50 Budgeting for Sound: How Much Does Professional PA Tuning Cost?

30:50 Should Churches Hire Independent Vetting for System Integrators?

38:30 Career Advice: When to Transition from Church Tech to the Road

43:20 Mental Health in Production: Prioritizing Health and Avoiding Burnout

45:30 Pro Touring Disaster Story: Lessons from the Road

48:00 Tech Takeaway: How to "Condition" Your Audience for Better Services

Get Toby's new book "Sacred Spaces, Modern Production" here.

Resources for your Church Tech Ministry

• Sell Us Gear: Does your church have used gear that you need to convert into new ministry dollars? We can make you an offer here.
• Buy Our Gear: Do you need some production gear but lack the budget to buy new gear? You can shop our gear store here.

Connect with us:

• Sales Bulletin: Get better deals than the public and get them earlier too here!
• Early Service: Get our best gear before it goes live on our site here.
• Instagram: Hangout with us on the gram here!
• Reviews: Leaving us a review on the podcast player you're listening to us on really helps the show. If you enjoyed this episode, you can say thank you with a review!