Note: This episode includes conversation around sexuality and experiences of harm within the church, including abuse. We invite you to listen with care and attentiveness to your own experience.

In this follow-up conversation, Jonathan and Rev. Jill Elizabeth reflect on Jill's dialogue with Tori Owens, continuing to explore themes of faith, sexuality, and belonging within the church. Drawing from their own experiences and theological perspectives, they consider what it means to hold space for honesty, tension, and growth in spiritual communities.

Together, they revisit key ideas from Part 1 and expand the conversation, asking how faith leaders and communities can move toward greater compassion, integrity, and care for those navigating questions of identity. This episode invites listeners to sit with the ongoing work of listening, unlearning, and reimagining what it means to create spaces where people can be fully seen and known.

About The Curian Network

• The Curian Network (formerly opentable.network) is a denominational space credentialing and resourcing pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, and counselors in this wild day and age we live in, which is as extremely irreligious as it is hyper-religious.
• We believe that what works out on the extreme edges and all the spaces in between is love. Not love that simply makes space for people within the terms set by existing structures, but love that allows difference to enhance the entirety of who we are.
• Top-down religion is no longer viable in a world shaped by algorithms, micro-communities, and interconnected networks. What’s needed is something relational and rhizomatic—a way of being that sends out roots in all directions, grows horizontally, and has no fixed beginning or end.
• The Curian Network connects faith leaders and communities without demanding conformity to specific creed or covenant. We are networked rather than hierarchical, woven together by relationship across digital and physical space—an ecosystem emphasizing the one thing that matters: faith expressing itself through love (Gal 5:6).
• We are a 501(c)(3) organization and a recognized endorser with The Board of Chaplaincy Certification and The Association of Professional Chaplains.

Learn More

• Learn how the Curian Network serves and credentials pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, theologians, professors, and other faith leaders seeking a spiritual home.
• Visit thecurian.network and follow @thecurian.network on Facebook and Instagram.

Credits

• Produced and original music by Ruthie Santiago Productions

In this episode, Jill Elizabeth is joined by Tori Owens, a therapist and spiritual director, for a thoughtful and personal conversation about faith, sexuality, and the search for belonging within the church. Drawing from her own lived experience, Tori reflects on the tension between identity and tradition, and what it has meant to navigate spaces that have not always made room for her full self.

Together, they explore how honesty, spiritual formation, and compassionate presence can open new pathways for healing and integration. This conversation invites listeners to consider what it looks like to hold faith and identity together with integrity, and how communities might become more life-giving for those on the margins.

About The Curian Network

• The Curian Network (formerly opentable.network) is a denominational space credentialing and resourcing pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, and counselors in this wild day and age we live in, which is as extremely irreligious as it is hyper-religious.
• We believe that what works out on the extreme edges and all the spaces in between is love. Not love that simply makes space for people within the terms set by existing structures, but love that allows difference to enhance the entirety of who we are.
• Top-down religion is no longer viable in a world shaped by algorithms, micro-communities, and interconnected networks. What’s needed is something relational and rhizomatic—a way of being that sends out roots in all directions, grows horizontally, and has no fixed beginning or end.
• The Curian Network connects faith leaders and communities without demanding conformity to specific creed or covenant. We are networked rather than hierarchical, woven together by relationship across digital and physical space—an ecosystem emphasizing the one thing that matters: faith expressing itself through love (Gal 5:6).
• We are a 501(c)(3) organization and a recognized endorser with The Board of Chaplaincy Certification and The Association of Professional Chaplains.

Learn More

• Learn how the Curian Network serves and credentials pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, theologians, professors, and other faith leaders seeking a spiritual home.
• Visit thecurian.network and follow @thecurian.network on Facebook and Instagram.

Credits

• Produced and original music by Ruthie Santiago Productions

In this episode, Jonathan Foster and Rev. Jill Elizabeth reflect on the Netflix series Mo, a story that weaves humor, hardship, and cultural tension into a deeply human narrative. Through the life of its central character, the series explores questions of identity, displacement, and what it means to belong in a world shaped by borders, systems, and competing loyalties.

Jonathan and Jill approach Mo as both cultural commentary and spiritual reflection, considering how the series illuminates themes of immigration, resilience, family, and faith. Together, they discuss how stories like this invite us to see more clearly the lived realities of marginalized communities and challenge us to imagine a more compassionate and just way of being together.

About The Curian Network

• The Curian Network (formerly opentable.network) is a denominational space credentialing and resourcing pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, and counselors in this wild day and age we live in, which is as extremely irreligious as it is hyper-religious.
• We believe that what works out on the extreme edges and all the spaces in between is love. Not love that simply makes space for people within the terms set by existing structures, but love that allows difference to enhance the entirety of who we are.
• Top-down religion is no longer viable in a world shaped by algorithms, micro-communities, and interconnected networks. What’s needed is something relational and rhizomatic—a way of being that sends out roots in all directions, grows horizontally, and has no fixed beginning or end.
• The Curian Network connects faith leaders and communities without demanding conformity to specific creed or covenant. We are networked rather than hierarchical, woven together by relationship across digital and physical space—an ecosystem emphasizing the one thing that matters: faith expressing itself through love (Gal 5:6).
• We are a 501(c)(3) organization and a recognized endorser with The Board of Chaplaincy Certification and The Association of Professional Chaplains.

Learn More

• Learn how the Curian Network serves and credentials pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, theologians, professors, and other faith leaders seeking a spiritual home.
• Visit thecurian.network and follow @thecurian.network on Facebook and Instagram.

Credits

• Produced and original music by Ruthie Santiago Productions

In this episode, Jonathan Foster and Jill Elizabeth are joined by Keri Ladouceur, executive director and co-founder of the Post-Evangelical Collective. Keri is a pastor, teacher, and bridge-building peacemaker who longs to cultivate new faith spaces of mutuality and flourishing for all people.

Together, they explore what it means to live faithfully beyond the confines of traditional evangelical structures, and how communities can remain rooted in the Way of Jesus while pursuing inclusion, holistic justice, and deep spiritual formation. Drawing on Keri’s leadership within the Post-Evangelical Collective — a network committed to connecting and resourcing post-evangelical churches — the conversation invites listeners to consider new models of belonging, witness, and love in the present cultural moment.

About The Curian Network

• The Curian Network (formerly opentable.network) is a denominational space credentialing and resourcing pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, and counselors in this wild day and age we live in, which is as extremely irreligious as it is hyper-religious.
• We believe that what works out on the extreme edges and all the spaces in between is love. Not love that simply makes space for people within the terms set by existing structures, but love that allows difference to enhance the entirety of who we are.
• Top-down religion is no longer viable in a world shaped by algorithms, micro-communities, and interconnected networks. What’s needed is something relational and rhizomatic—a way of being that sends out roots in all directions, grows horizontally, and has no fixed beginning or end.
• The Curian Network connects faith leaders and communities without demanding conformity to specific creed or covenant. We are networked rather than hierarchical, woven together by relationship across digital and physical space—an ecosystem emphasizing the one thing that matters: faith expressing itself through love (Gal 5:6).
• We are a 501(c)(3) organization and a recognized endorser with The Board of Chaplaincy Certification and The Association of Professional Chaplains.

Learn More

• Learn how the Curian Network serves and credentials pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, theologians, professors, and other faith leaders seeking a spiritual home.
• Visit thecurian.network and follow @thecurian.network on Facebook and Instagram.

Credits

• Produced and original music by Ruthie Santiago Productions

In this episode, Jonathan Foster and Jill Elizabeth reflect on Sinners, the 2025 supernatural horror film directed by Ryan Coogler. They approach the film as a cultural and theological text, exploring the deeper questions it raises about faith, oppression, and moral responsibility.

Together, they consider how horror can illuminate the dynamics of power, communal fear, and inherited trauma. The conversation engages themes of religion, violence, and belonging, asking what stories like Sinners reveal about the human condition and the systems that shape it.

Thoughtful and probing, this dialogue invites listeners to reflect not only on the film itself, but on the spiritual and cultural realities it mirrors.

About The Curian Network

• The Curian Network (formerly opentable.network) is a denominational space credentialing and resourcing pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, and counselors in this wild day and age we live in, which is as extremely irreligious as it is hyper-religious.
• We believe that what works out on the extreme edges and all the spaces in between is love. Not love that simply makes space for people within the terms set by existing structures, but love that allows difference to enhance the entirety of who we are.
• Top-down religion is no longer viable in a world shaped by algorithms, micro-communities, and interconnected networks. What’s needed is something relational and rhizomatic—a way of being that sends out roots in all directions, grows horizontally, and has no fixed beginning or end.
• The Curian Network connects faith leaders and communities without demanding conformity to specific creed or covenant. We are networked rather than hierarchical, woven together by relationship across digital and physical space—an ecosystem emphasizing the one thing that matters: faith expressing itself through love (Gal 5:6).
• We are a 501(c)(3) organization and a recognized endorser with The Board of Chaplaincy Certification and The Association of Professional Chaplains.

Learn More

• Learn how the Curian Network serves and credentials pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, theologians, professors, and other faith leaders seeking a spiritual home.
• Visit thecurian.network and follow @thecurian.network on Facebook and Instagram.

Credits

• Produced and original music by Ruthie Santiago Productions

In this episode, Jonathan Foster and Jill Elizabeth explore mimetic theory, a framework developed by French thinker René Girard that examines how desire, rivalry, and scapegoating shape human behavior and communities. Drawing on Jonathan’s doctoral work and long engagement with Girard’s thought, they discuss how mimesis influenced his faith, theology, and understanding of conflict within religious systems. Together, they reflect on how scapegoating operates in churches and institutions today, and why mimetic theory offers a compelling lens for reimagining faith rooted in truth, accountability, and nonviolent love.

Learn how the Curian Network serves and credentials pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, theologians, professors, and other faith leaders seeking a spiritual home. Visit our website thecurian.network and follow us on social media @thecurian.network on Facebook and Instagram.

Produced and original music by Ruthie Santiago Productions

In this episode, Jonathan Foster and Jill Elizabeth reflect on the 2024 film Conclave, using it as a lens to explore the inner dynamics of religious institutions. They examine how power, secrecy, and loyalty shape leadership and decision-making within sacred systems, and what the film reveals about institutional authority. The conversation invites listeners to consider how faith communities might move toward leadership rooted in humility, conscience, and love rather than control.

Learn how the Curian Network serves and credentials pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, theologians, professors, and other faith leaders seeking a spiritual home. Visit our website thecurian.network and follow us on social media @thecurian.network on Facebook and Instagram.

Produced and original music by Ruthie Santiago Productions

In this episode, Jonathan Foster and Jill Elizabeth are joined by Andrea Martinez of Martinez Immigration Law, a Kansas City–based immigration attorney featured in the Netflix documentary Living Undocumented, for a conversation at the intersection of faith, law, and human dignity. Together, they explore the ethical and theological questions surrounding immigration, the realities faced by immigrant communities, and what it means to accompany individuals and families with compassion as they navigate complex legal systems.

Learn how the Curian Network serves and credentials pastors, chaplains, spiritual directors, theologians, professors, and other faith leaders seeking a spiritual home.

Learn more at our website thecurian.network and on social media @thecurian.network on Facebook and Instagram.

Produced and original music by Ruthie Santiago Productions