Tish Harrison Warren is an Anglican priest, a former columnist at the New York Times and Christianity Today, and a writer of wise and thoughtful books about living lives of connection and meaning. Her new book, What Grows in Weary Lands, explores a reality that early Christians often grappled with but that we rarely talk about in contemporary life: at times, God seems to abandon the soul, leaving us feeling as if we are alone and left to our own resources. These are times of futility, when work and relationships feel hard, when prayer feels unsatisfying, and we question whether our efforts amount to anything. In this conversation, Tish and Jonathan Rogers talk about the possibility that aridity, languishing, and even burnout are an invitation to deeper, more connected, and more fruitful life and work.

This episode is sponsored by The Habit's Writer Development Cohorts.

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Angela Alaimo O'Donnell is a poet, professor, and scholar whose work sits at the crossroads of faith, memory, and the literary imagination. She teaches literature and creative writing at Fordham University and serves as Associate Director of the Curran Center for American Catholic Studies.

Her latest poetry collection is The View from Childhood. She has said, “We all have a place that we come from that has helped shape us into who we are. We all have memories that stay with us, bring us joy, and haunt us, and we all face the daily decision of what to do with those memories—to preserve them or to let them fade. My vocation, as a poet, compels me to turn them into story and song. These poems tell my stories, and I also hope they, in some way, tell the reader’s.”

In this episode, Dr. O’Donnell and Jonathan Rogers talk about origin stories, Flannery O’Connor, and the idea that any writer who has survived childhood has enough material to last a lifetime.

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Besides being an award-winning teacher and professor of theology & ethics at Lipscomb University, Lee Camp hosts No Small Endeavor, a podcast that asks What does it mean to live a good life? What is true happiness? What are the habits, practices, and dispositions that facilitate human flourishing? Lee Camp explores these and similar questions with some of the most influential authors, scientists, artists, psychologists, philosophers, and theologians. In this episode, Dr. Camp and Jonathan Rogers talk about ethics, virtue theory, and writerly habits.

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Professor Alan Noble is a voice of good sense in a world where good sense seems to be in short supply. His new book is To Live Well: Practical Wisdom for Moving Through Chaotic Times. It is a call to return to the old paths as laid out in the seven virtues of Prudence, Justice, Fortitude, Temperance, Faith, Hope, and Love. In this episode, Alan and Jonathan Rogers talk about the limits of technique, a respect for reality, and largeness of spirit, among other topics.

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Jennifer Trafton’s new book is If Only We Could See: Reimagining Creativity, Compassion, and Calling Through the Extraordinary Life of Lilias Trotter. An historian, a visual artist, and a novelist, Jennifer is uniquely qualified to tell this story. In this episode, Jennifer and Jonathan Rogers talk about the remarkable life of artist and missionary Lilias Trotter. They also talk about the empathetic imagination, the value of seeing what is actually in front of you, and the role of humility in seeing clearly.

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Leslie Bustard did a lot of thinking, teaching, and writing about what God made women to be–as distinct from what women can and can’t do. She was working on a book on this topic when she died in 2023. In the last months of Leslie’s earthly life, writer and editor Théa Rosenburg came alongside to help Leslie get the book over the finish line. As it happened, Théa had to finish the work without Leslie. The book, called Strong Allies, released in 2026. Jonathan Rogers sat down with Théa at the Square Halo Conference in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and recorded the following conversation before a live audience.

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Jamie Quatro is the author of Two Step Devil, a southern Gothic novel very much in the tradition of Flannery O’Connor. The Booklist review of Two-Step Devil describes it as "Brilliantly paced and exquisitely detailed, this striking novel takes on such weighty themes as faith, humanity, and frailty without a touch of melodrama . . . A spectacular masterpiece.” Bookpage called Quatro "a saint of Southern discomfort. Jamie Quatro and Jonathan Rogers recorded this conversation in front of a live audience at the Illuminate Conference near Chattanooga.

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Joy Clarkson is the author of Aggressively Happy and host of the podcast, Speaking with Joy. She is the books editor for Plough Quarterly and a research associate in theology and literature at King's College London. Joy completed her PhD in theology at the University of St Andrews, where she researched how art can be a resource of hope and consolation. Her new book is You Are a Tree: And Other Metaphors to Nourish Life, Thought, And Prayer. In this episode, Joy and I talk about the ways that figurative language shapes the way we think about the world and ourselves, and Joy tries to convince Jonathan that the distinction between simile and metaphor is meaningful.

This episode originally aired January 2024.

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