Julie King is a renowned parenting expert, author, and workshop leader who has dedicated her career to helping parents communicate more effectively with their children. She is the co-author of two bestselling books: "How to Talk So Little Kids Will Listen” and "How to Talk When Kids Won't Listen”.

Julie joined this episode to discuss:

• The trick to get kids to leave the park (and your users to retain)

• The secret framing solution for showing kids (and users) their progress

• The way to ask someone to do something that is foolproof

• How to set boundaries and still acknowledge feelings (employee management 101)

• The psychology behind getting your kids to go to bed (or users to engage)

This episode reveals why the same psychological principles that work with stubborn toddlers can transform your product strategy and team dynamics.

Whether you're designing user flows, managing stakeholder relationships, or creating engagement strategies, Julie's communication framework offers valuable techniques for influencing behavior without creating resistance—critical skills for anyone building a successful product.

Mac Namara is an expert dog trainer who specializes in positive reinforcement techniques. She runs Puppy Prep, a company designed to help new dog owners set their puppies up for success from day one through science-based training methods.

In our conversation, we explore:

• Why the speed of reinforcement (every 6 seconds!) is critical for behavior change

• How to train in short, focused bursts rather than lengthy sessions

• The importance of environment design over willpower or personality traits

• How to properly transition from consistent to variable reward schedules

• Why focusing on what TO do works better than punishing unwanted behaviors

• The problem with saying "no" without showing the alternative

• How these principles directly translate to product design and user onboarding

• Lessons from dog training that apply to workplace feedback and management

This episode offers practical insights on designing for behavior change through the science of positive reinforcement. A must-listen for product teams looking to create more engaging experiences and anyone interested in the psychology of meaningful habit formation!

Enjoy this episode? Rate it and leave a review. It really helps others find the podcast.Learn more about Kristen and Irrational Labs ⁠⁠here⁠⁠.

Christine May helped spearhead behavioral science at Noom, shaping it into an engine for user segmentation and accountability. As their former Head of Behavioral Science, she championed Noom’s “big picture” motivation model—tying everyday habits to goals—and played a role in scaling one-on-one coaching into a digital system for millions. Now, Christine helps consumer tech startups build habit-forming experiences rooted in evidence-based psychology.

In our conversation, we explore:

• The book club principle: How to embed accountability in features customers actually want

• Why 90% of users reject direct accountability features (and how to solve this)

• How Noom's lengthy sign-up flow acts as a commitment filter

• The counterintuitive confidence level that predicts user success

• What makes fixed-length plans more effective than endless subscriptions

• How to design rewards around behaviors instead of outcomes

• The unexpected way social desirability drives product engagement

This episode is packed with practical insights on designing for sustainable behavior change, creating effective accountability systems that users actually want, and the surprising psychology behind what motivates people to stick with challenging goals.

Enjoy this episode? Rate it and leave a review. It really helps others find the podcast.Learn more about Kristen and Irrational Labs ⁠here⁠.