In this episode, Molly Neuman joins Michael Nevins to share how CD Baby has changed (and what’s coming next), why the artist “DIY” journey is way more complex than people think, and how platforms earn trust when the experience is intuitive and fair. They also get into the pressure artists feel to do everything (music, content, business), and why it’s worth being honest about what success can look like.

Along the way: Riot Grrrl, music scenes, and community-building; drumming as both craft and metaphor (multiple limbs / multiple priorities); and the mindset Molly uses to navigate a long, evolving career in music and tech.

00:00 - Kick & Snare intro

00:18 - Meet Molly Neuman (CD Baby President)

02:43 - Squiggly careers

04:53 - What CD Baby does today (and why “DIY” is more complex than it sounds)

06:59 - Molly’s Downtown journey: Songtrust → CMO → CD Baby

08:58 - Repositioning CD Baby: infrastructure, operations, and competing in a crowded market

11:24 - “By artists, for artists” + modern artist needs (global scale, new expectations)

12:38 - UX is the brand: why product experience beats logos

14:05 - Labels as filters: identity, taste, and trust (Discord, scenes, discovery)

18:26 - Labels as filters: identity, taste, and trust (Discord, scenes, discovery)

22:40 - Scenes, movements, and Riot Grrrl: how it grew (and what it wasn’t)

37:15 - Representation and visibility: why it changes people’s lives

42:12 - Career growth via new environments (Kickstarter lessons, scaling Songtrust)

44:36 - Untapped opportunity: supporting more women creators

45:51 - Getting her start as a drummer: learning by watching the kick drum

52:28 - Getting better in your 50s

53:51 - Drumming and leadership: multitasking, anticipation, staying in time

55:36 - Artist tools: being real about what artists need now

58:05 - What Molly’s listening to right now + closing

Cliff Fluet (partner at Louis Silkin, joint head of Media & Entertainment; Chair of Music Technology UK; founder of Eleven Advisory) joins Michael Nevins to unpack how music, tech, and IP are colliding in the age of AI.

We cover: why MusicTechnology UK focuses on funding + ecosystem building, why Cliff believes AI is a paradigm shift on the scale of electricity, and his core argument: “Copyright isn’t the problem. Licensing is the answer.”

Plus: the case for focusing on outputs vs inputs, the music industry’s data problem, and practical advice for founders and people breaking into music tech.

• ​Cliff Fluet (Louis Silkin): #MusicTech #AI #Copyright #Licensing #MusicIndustry #startups

  00:00 - Start

  00:23 - Intro: Cliff Fluet (Louis Silkin, MusicTech UK, Eleven Advisory)

  01:54 - From hi-fi salesman to Warner Music: Cliff’s origin story

  04:00 - Warner Music in the CD boom → internet flips the industry

  04:47 - New media at Warner: early streaming + disruption

  05:51 - The jump to radio: “I’ve got to go on the other side and get some rights from you.”

  06:57 - Private practice: advising mobile + early streaming (Pandora → DSPs)

  07:58 - Why “legal + strategic” (and founding Eleven Advisory)

  09:22 - Building MusicTech UK: the what and the why

  12:56 - The #1 problem for music tech startups

  16:03 - Community + “space & place”: H.O.M.E. + Tileyard Studios ecosystems

  19:48 - Does the UK get enough credit for music innovation?

  23:58 - AI as a revolution (not an evolution)

  33:47 - AI training data + copyright: can we “unscramble the egg”?

  34:23 - Key thesis: “Licensing is the answer” (outputs vs inputs)

  38:13 - Flying the plane while building it: contracting in uncertainty

  44:13 - The music industry’s biggest blind spot: data

  48:16 - Disruption vs curiosity: what founders get wrong

  51:56 - Career advice: curiosity wins

  54:25 - What Cliff is listening to now

  56:23 - Cool tech: Bria & Uhmbrella

  57:07 - Closing: “help write music’s next verse.”

Michael Nevins welcomes guest Alan Chappell, President of Chappell and Associates, ad tech privacy expert, and multifaceted musician. Alan shares insights into balancing a demanding legal career with his passion for music, discussing his songwriting process, the impact of AI on the creative industry, and experiences working with renowned producers like Jimmy Einer and Jerry Harrison. The conversation explores the evolution of music technology, incorporating personal anecdotes about Alan's musical journey and his perspectives on the integration of creativity and business. Alan also offers advice for aspiring creatives, emphasizing the importance of embracing chaos in the creative process.

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More about Alan and his music: https://thisischapell.com/

And More about Chappell & Associates: https://thisischapell.com/chapellassociates/