Part 2 of 'Echoes of the Tao, Seeking Truth Across Traditions,' starts with 'what does it mean to Serve and Love God (or Tao)?

• God (Tao) says, 'be what I made you to be!'
• God (Tao) is found in relationship.
• Does God want us to know Him (or ourselves) most intimately?
• Dependent Co-arising?
• 'Simultaneously, I and all beings attain the Way' (Awaken to Reality) ~Buddha
• 'Essentially, outside of me, nothing exists'
• Verse 18
• What does it mean to let go?
• What do we let go of?
• To be human is to be attached?
• Closes with Verse 81, and then Joel reads two poems by Ikkyu.

Biographies of Panel:

Dr. Bob Insull is an New York State Licensed Psychologist with more than 60 years experience teaching, training, and treating in the arena of human behavior. In his clinical practice, he has worked across the developmental stages (children to golden-agers), across the diagnostic spectrum (chemical dependency, severe mental illness, relationship issues, depression, anxiety, and PTSD), and treatment settings (clinics, inpatient psychiatric centers, and private practice). During the closing years of his practice, he became interested in the area of psychological trauma and worked with survivors in individual and group settings. He has been retired from active practice for about 15 years and spends his time engaged in self-discovery on the Sufi Path and social-change activities with his church.

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Brian Mistler enjoys communing with fellow inquirers and reflecting together on revealed perennial wisdom.

• Hari Om Tat Sat. Peace, peace, peace.

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Richard Grego is Professor of philosophy and cultural history at FSCJ. His research interests focus on cross cultural themes in religion and science - including philosophy of mind, comparative world religions/world civilizations, and the metaphysical - theological implications of theoretical physics and cosmology. His publications have included studies in the history - philosophy of science and conceptions of nature in the history of western philosophy, as well as cross-cultural perspectives on mind/ consciousness in western philosophy - psychology and the neo-Vedanta Hindu tradition. Prior to his academic career, he was a criminal investigator - polygraph examiner for the Florida Office of the Public Defender and in the private sector Instructor at the Criminal Justice Institute and International Academy of Polygraph Science in Florida, and national Academic Director of the Criminal Defense Investigation Training Council.

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Joel David Lesses is President and Executive Director of Education Training Center, Inc. and his work experience is in education, psychology, and counseling for people marginalized by trauma, addiction, and psychological distress. He is deeply vested in addressing the effects of mental health distress and its marginalization including, incarceration, homelessness, and institutionalization. Joel is dedicated to reframing mental health distress as a potential spiritual marker and existential opportunity. He holds dual Master of Science degrees from University at Buffalo in Rehabilitation Counseling and Biomedical Sciences with a concentration in Epidemiology.

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Henry Cretella, M.D. studied and practiced Tibetan Buddhism for several years along with training in martial arts. He then immersed himself in the more universal Sufism of Inayat Khan, an Indian mystic, for close to twenty years. He functioned as a senior teacher in the Inayati Order and the Sufi Healing Order before pursuing his independent practice and study of mysticism. He now integrates what he has learned and experienced over these many years. He graduated from Vanderbilt Medical School and completed his psychiatric training at Strong Memorial Hospital of the Univer...

In this exploration of the Tao Te Ching and other traditions, the conversation opens to introductions of the five Panelists and a invocation of hope of others to investigate the Tao Te Ching.

Bob, Brian, Rich, Henry and Joel share Verse 1 and questions arise:

• What is Reality?
• Is the Tao Reality?
• What is the Tao?
• What does the term Anti-foundational mean?
• Reversal Yin/ Yang in relation to Tao.
• Paradox and the Tao.
• Everyday consciousness is the pathway to the Tao.
• What is the relationship with Buddhism, Hinduism, Christiainity and Tao?
• What does silence offer in relation to the Tao?
• The Beginningless Beginning?
• Is the Tao directly knowable?
• Tibetan Buddihsm and the Tao.
• Verse 17 and Verse 38 are explored.
• Wu Wei.
• How do we serve God?
• How do we serve Tao?
• Why did God create?

Biographies of Panel:

Dr. Bob Insull is an New York State Licensed Psychologist with more than 60 years experience teaching, training, and treating in the arena of human behavior. In his clinical practice, he has worked across the developmental stages (children to golden-agers), across the diagnostic spectrum (chemical dependency, severe mental illness, relationship issues, depression, anxiety, and PTSD), and treatment settings (clinics, inpatient psychiatric centers, and private practice). During the closing years of his practice, he became interested in the area of psychological trauma and worked with survivors in individual and group settings. He has been retired from active practice for about 15 years and spends his time engaged in self-discovery on the Sufi Path and social-change activities with his church.

-------

Brian Mistler enjoys communing with fellow inquirers and reflecting together on revealed perennial wisdom.

• Hari Om Tat Sat. Peace, peace, peace.

-------

Richard Grego is Professor of philosophy and cultural history at FSCJ. His research interests focus on cross cultural themes in religion and science - including philosophy of mind, comparative world religions/world civilizations, and the metaphysical - theological implications of theoretical physics and cosmology. His publications have included studies in the history - philosophy of science and conceptions of nature in the history of western philosophy, as well as cross-cultural perspectives on mind/ consciousness in western philosophy - psychology and the neo-Vedanta Hindu tradition. Prior to his academic career, he was a criminal investigator - polygraph examiner for the Florida Office of the Public Defender and in the private sector Instructor at the Criminal Justice Institute and International Academy of Polygraph Science in Florida, and national Academic Director of the Criminal Defense Investigation Training Council.

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Joel David Lesses is President and Executive Director of Education Training Center, Inc. and his work experience is in education, psychology, and counseling for people marginalized by trauma, addiction, and psychological distress. He is deeply vested in addressing the effects of mental health distress and its marginalization including, incarceration, homelessness, and institutionalization. Joel is dedicated to reframing mental health distress as a potential spiritual marker and existential opportunity. He holds dual Master of Science degrees from University at Buffalo in Rehabilitation Counseling and Biomedical Sciences with a concentration in Epidemiology.

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Henry Cretella, M.D. studied and practiced Tibetan Buddhism for several years along with training in martial arts. He then immersed himself in the more universal Sufism of Inayat Khan, an Indian mystic, for close to twenty years. He functioned as a senior teacher in the Inayati Order and the Sufi Healing Order before pursuing his...

On this cross-posted episode from the Unraveling Religion podcast, Pádraig Ó Tuama joins Unraveling Religion's Host, Joel Lesses, and shares a conversation from the heart about poetry, spirituality, community, and communion.

The conversation opens to how Joel and Pádraig met, and what informed Pádraig's life as a Poet and Theologian. Pádraig recalls the influences of Ireland and school and the foundation of poetry in that experience, and poetry as resistance, and the role of Peacemaker in the world.

Pádraig reads from his new book of poetry Kitchen Hymns' poem, 'The Long Table.'

The conversation opens to many faces of poetry and existence:

• Are we irrelevant to the Universe or is the human being the center point of existence?
• Do we understand what Love Is?
• Joel reads from the Mountains and Rivers Sutra of Dogen Zenji's Shobogenzo
• Coming together for the point of comprehension and not necessary agreement
• The Church views of LGBTQ+ Community
• Beyond formal belief and nurturing the heart
• Pádraig and mentoring the younger generation
• Pádraig's Kitchen Hymns and On Being's Poetry Unbound Anthology released in 2025: 44 Poems on Being with Each Another
• Jewish Mysticism and Kabbalah
• Kabbalah is for Humankind
• Plato's Soul with Two Faces
• The importance of Good Questions is rooted in Judaism and is applicable to all spiritual traditions
• Midrash in Judaism
• The body and the erotic in relation to spirituality and the deeper questions of existence
• Star of David deconstructed
• In Judaism a single person is known as half a human being
• The Garments of the Soul: Intention, Thought, Action, and Speech
• The Zohar and the thirst for deeper esoteric secrets
• Pádraig examines the relationship between poetry and prayer
• 'You' in poetry, most prayers include the word 'you'
• Pádraig reads from Kitchen Hymns, 'Do You Believe In God?'
• Close examination of a text will lead you into infinitity
• Are Jewish soul's always in Jewish bodies?
• Joel reads Gary Synder's 'Why Log Truck Drivers Rise Earlier Than Students of Zen'
• Poetry transpo...