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The Leader Learner Podcast

The Leader Learner Podcast

Written by: Theresa Destrebecq and Vincent Musolino
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About this listen

The Leader Learner podcast is for readers and leaders of all kinds. Theresa and Vincent both work as external learning and development providers to global organizations, supporting them in different ways.


In this podcast, they explore what they're learning from and with the organizations that they work with, as well as what they are learning through their own leadership practices.

© 2026 The Leader Learner Podcast
Economics Self-Help Success
Episodes
  • Is Listening Over-rated?
    Jan 9 2026

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    THEME : Is listening overrated?

    CONVERSATION POINTS:

    • people think they are better communicators/listeners than they are
    • listening is a very under-rated skill, and one to keep practicing
    • knowledge is not opinion
    • context shifts how we listen to people
    • everyone deserves the right to be heard, but we don't have to take on board what they have to say
    • listening without questioning what is true and what is not - practice discernment
    • we listen through our own lens and biases
    • What's the balance between listening to someone's opinion and sharing your own?
    • when we give advice too soon, we may not be solving the right problem
    • Are there contexts when we shouldn't listen?
    • laws do not protect all people and do not represent all voices
    • power dynamics affect people's listening
    • who "has to" do the listening?
    • when ego gets in the way of listening?
    • higher ups need to spend more time listening to the people who actually know -- the experts
    • when big companies enter into environments against the wishes and values of the citizens
    • we are all capable of listening, but we don't practice and don't use the skill wisely
    • the dyanmic of you're not listening to me, so I won't listen to you
    • our ability to influence to change depends on our listening
    • listen to ask better questions -- instead of thinking "that doesn't make any sense," ask a question to make sense
    • train our listening every day
    • deep listening to things we don't value is very challenging
    • the righteousness that goes along with not listening
    • People not voting based on policy, but on who listens best
    • The skill of listening is crucial
    • Listening as a skill that goes out the window when we are emotionally triggered

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    35 mins
  • Does Defiance Have a Place at Work?
    Dec 9 2025

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    TOPIC: Do you think we should punish defiance in organizations?

    BIG IDEAS:

    • defiance appreciated in different cultures - in France it shows you're thinking critically
    • power dynamics that are at play when talking about defiance
    • defy and comply isn't a binary
    • most of us were raised to believe that compliance was good and defiance was bad
    • defiance can be good when it aligns with our values
    • consent is when you have the capacity, knowledge
    • we comply without having the knowledge
    • false defiance - you go along with something that isn't aligned with your values
    • conscious compliance -- where we're consciously going with something that's against your values because the risk is too high to comply
    • there is often a long build up to defiance
    • recognize the moments when I'm consciously complying
    • not wanting to be the "complainer" when being harassed - risks too great for career
    • people from marginalized groups have a great risk when defying
    • looking to any ally from a more powerful social group to defy for you
    • saying "no" to people's behavior and setting boundaries
    • he-peating -- when a man repeats a woman's ideas, and others praise him over her
    • How should companies deal with defiance?
    • getting curious about the defiance - look at practices and processes that are outdated
    • look at gaps between personal values and organizational values - how do we reconcile gaps in values
    • Are values stated, but not practiced?
    • people can value the same thing, but how they demonstrate those values can differ
    • look at the behaviors over the stated values of an organization
    • emotional, psychological, physical, financial risks when it comes to defiance and compliance
    • if there is a values misalignment between you and the organization, you choose a principled exit
    • Is doing values exercises a pointless and dangerous exercise because you will never have alignment?
    • the word defy has a moral connotation in French
    • when people take your defiance to a process as a personal attack
    • How do you defy but still stay loyal to the organization?
    • it's hard to argue with someone's values
    • standing on your moral high ground makes the other person wrong
    • using your values as a launch pad for your defiance
    • build around a common need
    • finding the nuanced way to defy - it doesn't have to be big and bold
    • when you're at work, you're in a dependent relationship, so there are inherent risks
    • the difference between protesting and striking


    RESOURCES:

    • Defy by Dr. Sunita Sah
    • Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg

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    34 mins
  • Are Gen Z the Me, Me, Me Generation?
    Nov 13 2025

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    QUESTION: Are Gen Z Me, Me, Me?

    BIG IDEAS:

    • Lots of complaints from a team leader around respect for him and org. His belief that his younger team members are overconfident and think they are superior
    • Do leaders need to prioritize the organization over themselves
    • Leaders looking for themselves in future leaders (projection)
    • Generalizations around generations
    • We tend to overestimate when people were born, but what they went through and where are they now in their lives that make a difference
    • What 25-year-old prioritizes the organization over themselves?
    • Gen Z were hit really hard by Covid, and it defines how we see the world
    • Perception that Gen Z lacks patience and don't want to put in the work
    • Dunning Krueger Effect or status quos on timelines?
    • Learning can happen much faster, but they lack experience
    • When we judge others for judging, we are judging too
    • Is it a lack of patience?
    • Envy and resentment growing -- wish to have the attitude that Gen Z has
    • Tension between the "new way" and the "old way"
    • COVID shifted priorities for people, yet companies want to go back to the way things were (working in the office being a top priority)
    • What does it mean to "go back to normal"?
    • "That's the way we've always done it," can get in the way of growth
    • Adapt rather than fight it
    • Equity of treatment across generations and work preferences
    • It's not about working 50% versus, it's about working 50% or leaving the company
    • We only need to love 20% of our work to find meaning in all of our work
    • Only 14% of people are engaged -- how is that measured?
    • Are we asking too much of people for their work?
    • How much is the perception of engagement valid across generations?
    • How much show off and show me rose due to the self facing camera?
    • Over praising leading to overconfidence
    • Instead of keeping them down, give them the opportunity to safely fail
    • Seeing the gray area between people's truths

    RESOURCES MENTIONED:

    • Podcast || Social Science Bites - Episode on Generational Myths
    • Book || Love + Work by Marcus Buckingham
    • Book || Think Again by Adam Grant

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    31 mins
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