Sean Olson, an Emmy-winning photojournalist turned trial lawyer, shares his journey of building a multi-state personal injury firm and balancing the roles of CEO and litigator. Sean details the single case that convinced him to leave his decade-long practice defending law enforcement and dedicate his career to helping the injured. He offers a masterclass on building a firm from the ground up, including how to develop a marketing engine based on storytelling, why most lead-gen services are a trap, and the critical importance of creating systems to ensure a premier client experience.

(0:00) From Emmy-Winning Photojournalist to Trial Lawyer

(1:17) An Overview of Olson Personal Injury Lawyers

(2:08) The Intentional Strategy Behind a Multi-State Practice

(5:01) The Pivotal Case That Changed a Career Path

(7:49) Red Flags: How to Spot Client Exaggeration During Intake

(8:30) Why No Honest Lawyer Can Tell You What Your Case is Worth in the First Call

(14:40) Learning to Run a Business and Hiring the First Employee

(16:36) How to Build a Marketing Engine Without a Big Nest Egg

(17:58) The #1 Red Flag to Watch for in Marketing Vendors

(22:06) Why Storytelling is the Most Effective Marketing Strategy

(25:26) Systematizing the Firm for a Premier Client Experience

(26:52) Getting Lawyer Buy-In: How to Enforce Processes by Explaining the "Why"

(33:04) The Core Challenge: You Can Be a Trial Lawyer or a CEO, But Not Both

(38:48) Sean's Take on AI and Its Inevitable Impact on Law Practice

(41:42) Where to Find and Contact Sean Olson

Contact Sean Olson: protectingthewest.com

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Matthew Baker, a partner at Saul Ewing LLP, discusses the nuances of trust and estate litigation for attorneys. He explains why empathy is a litigator's most underrated tool, how to build a referral-based practice, and why even lawyers at large firms should take control of their own marketing. Matthew also shares his hands-on experience with AI tools like ChatGPT and Co-Counsel, offering a practical look at how technology is reshaping the practice of law for litigators.

Show Notes

(00:00) Introduction: Matthew Baker, Partner at Saul Ewing LLP.

(1:48) The Accidental Specialty: How Matt “fell into” trust and estate litigation.

(3:43) The unique, small-bar nature of trust and estate law.

(5:07) Navigating the complexities when family businesses are locked inside a trust.

(7:44) The 50/50 Split: Why representing both trustees and beneficiaries makes you a better lawyer.

(9:08) Describing trust litigation as “family law for grown-ups” once the patriarch or matriarch passes.

(10:24) The lawyer's role as a sympathetic ear in emotionally charged family disputes.

(12:55) Mediation as an "airing of grievances" to help clients feel heard.

(14:17) Partner vs. Solo: Why collaboration and resources won out over hanging a shingle.

(18:06) Marketing Philosophy: Why you can't rely on your firm to build your career.

(19:30) The Partner's Playbook: Hiring an outside marketing coach for consistency and accountability.

(21:19) The #1 referral source for trust litigators and how to earn their trust.

(27:31) Post-COVID Litigation: The strategic use of Zoom vs. in-person court appearances.

(29:18) Why being physically in the room still matters for depositions and mediations.

(33:29) A Litigator's Daily Toolkit: Using ChatGPT, Gemini, and Co-counsel for a competitive edge.

(35:15) The Future is Now: Why attorneys who resist AI will be left behind.

(38:58) A practical AI use case: Turning a week-long document review into an hour-long analysis.

(42:41) Where to find and contact Matthew Baker.

Contact Matthew: matthew.baker@saul.com or linkedin

Want to join the show as a guest? Email us: zihao@legion.law

Join our ⁠⁠⁠Facebook community⁠⁠⁠ to connect with other founding attorneys

This podcast was brought to you by

Legion: Actually reliable litigation drafting — at AI speed.

Tired of litigation busy work? Get court-ready pleadings, serve-ready discovery, and battle-ready motions — in 30 minutes or less.

Visit legion.law

Music: lofi type beat "flower market" by snoozy beats.

This episode features Elijah McNally, Marketing Director at Arias Sanguinetti Trial Lawyers, a 20-attorney powerhouse that has recovered over $1.5 billion for its clients. Elijah offers a fresh perspective on legal marketing, emphasizing a move away from aggressive, jargon-filled advertising toward a "trauma-informed" and sincere approach. He explains how answering a potential client's questions directly and leading with empathy can build trust and, counterintuitively, achieve better results with SEO and AI. Elijah provides a playbook for firms of all sizes, from solos testing the waters with a $1,000/month Meta ads budget to larger firms learning how to vet and manage marketing vendors effectively. This conversation is a masterclass in modernizing your firm's outreach by focusing on the human story behind every case.

Show Notes:

(00:00) Introduction: Elijah McNally and the powerhouse firm, Arias Sanguinetti.

(00:56) A Fresh Perspective: Moving beyond "rinse and repeat" marketing to tell relatable stories.

(03:36) Trauma-Informed SEO: Answering direct client questions to build trust in sensitive practice areas.

(06:21) AI and SEO: How a client-first strategy is being rewarded by new technology.

(07:41) The "Chicken Recipe" Problem: Why direct answers are key to building trust and converting leads.

(10:14) Big Picture Strategy: A look at Arias Sanguinetti’s marketing channels, including SEO, social media, and paid Meta ads.

(12:07) Advice for Solo Attorneys: How to start marketing yourself and when to hire an expert.

(13:23) The $1,000/Month Experiment: How to test Meta ads effectively on a small budget.

(15:08) The Two-Month Rule: How long to run an ad campaign before deciding if it’s effective.

(19:58) Vetting Your Vendors: How to avoid "snake oil salesmen" and find partners aligned with your mission.

(22:11) Due Diligence Checklist: Talk to 10 vendors, check their work for typos, and ask for client references.

(23:41) Managing Your Agency: Why you must be the "squeaky wheel" to get the best results.

(25:54) Speaking Two Languages: Crafting different messages for attorney referrals (B2B) and potential clients (B2C).

(27:17) Cutting Through the Noise: How to strip away legalese and close the emotional gap with your audience.

(34:14) Tailoring the Message: Adjusting marketing strategies for different practice areas based on the client's emotional state.

(37:12) People-First Marketing: The story behind the "Women fighting for women" ad that generated a flood of leads.

(39:50) The Power of Sincerity: Why leading with your heart is the most effective and ethical marketing strategy.

Contact Elijah: elijah@aswtlawyers.com or on LinkedIn.

Want to join the show as a guest? Email us: zihao@legion.law

Join our ⁠⁠⁠Facebook community⁠⁠⁠ to connect with other founding attorneys.

This podcast was brought to you by:

Legion: Actually reliable litigation drafting — at AI speed.

Tired of litigation busy work? Get court-ready pleadings, serve-ready discovery, and battle-ready motions — in 30 minutes or less.

Visit legion.law

Music: lofi type beat "flower market" by snoozy beats.