In this episode of The Ministry Exchange, Rev. Paul Timothy Roberts Sr., Dr. Ouida Harding, and Minister Warren Cooper join Dr. Mapson for a courageous conversation on worship as resistance and the prophetic power of Black sacred music. Representing JCSTS — formerly known as Johnson C. Smith Theological Seminary, with roots tracing back to the Freedmen’s Institute — they explore how theological formation, cultural memory, and sacred sound intersect in this critical moment for the church.

Tracing the lineage of Black Church music from spirituals to contemporary expressions, our guests challenge the drift toward performance culture and consumer-driven worship. They name the tension between platform and prophecy, excellence and ego, gig culture and ministry — calling pastors and musicians back to shared purpose and theological depth.

This conversation explores:
- Worship as resistance, not escape
- The prophetic function of Black Church music
- Preserving a sacred tradition larger than contemporary gospel
- The pastor–musician relationship and its challenges
- Capitalism’s influence on worship culture
- How JCSTS is forming leaders to align music, message, and mission

For pastors, musicians, and worship leaders, this episode offers clarity and conviction — a call to restore variety, courage, and theological grounding in our sanctuaries. When worship becomes offering rather than performance, it forms communities that resist injustice, tell the truth, and sing with purpose.

If this conversation strengthens your ministry, subscribe, share it with a fellow leader, and leave a review so more voices can join the exchange.

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Thanks for tuning in to The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson
Where real conversations meet real ministry.

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🎙️ The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson is powered by MinistryForward Media Group, helping churches and leaders grow through media, strategy, and leadership tools.

📲 Stay Connected:
Follow us on Instagram & Facebook: @ministryfwd / @drjwmapson
Visit our website: www.ministryfwd.com
(coming soon)
Watch episodes on YouTube: Search “The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson”

Want to collaborate or sponsor an episode?
Reach out at: info@ministryfwd.com

This episode is proudly sponsored by Terry Funeral Home Inc.
For over 85 years, Terry Funeral Home has walked with families through life’s most sacred moments, offering care, dignity, and excellence when it matters most. Learn more at terryfuneralhome.com.

This episode is also supported by our Silver Partner, Palmer Theological Seminary.
Whole Gospel. Whole World. Whole Persons. Palmer equips leaders for transformative, justice-centered ministry through theological depth and holistic formation. Learn more at palmerseminary.edu.

Season Two of The Ministry Exchange begins with a powerful and timely conversation—one that sets the tone for the season ahead.

In this episode of The Ministry Exchange, Rev. Dr. Mark Kelly Tyler offers a compelling reflection on calling, courage, and the sacred responsibility of memory within the life of the Black Church. Drawing from decades of ministry as a pastor, historian, filmmaker, and organizer, Dr. Tyler traces a journey that moves seamlessly between pulpit, public square, and preserved story.

From his early formation in Oakland to his tenure as Senior Pastor of Mother Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Philadelphia, Dr. Tyler reflects on what it means to lead on sacred ground while remaining accountable to both history and community. He shares the weight and wonder of shepherding the founding congregation of African Methodism, where worship, justice, and legacy converge, and explains how the AME Church’s origins continue to shape its prophetic witness today.

Throughout the conversation, Dr. Tyler explores how storytelling has become central to his ministry. From documentary filmmaking and radio hosting to his innovative Black History on Two Wheels initiative, he explains how history, when told faithfully, becomes a tool for formation, resistance, and hope. He also speaks candidly about itinerant ministry, family life, obedience within hierarchical systems, and the discernment required to step away from the pastorate into his current role as Historiographer of the AME Church.

This episode explores:

• Why history is essential to faithful ministry and moral clarity
• The personal and spiritual costs of itinerant leadership
• How media, film, and radio serve as modern pulpits
• Navigating prophetic witness within institutional systems
• Transitioning from pastoral leadership to global historical stewardship
• What it means for the Church to tell the truth about where it has been

For pastors, church leaders, and anyone concerned with the soul of the Church, Dr. Tyler offers a thoughtful meditation on leadership that remembers, resists, and remains faithful. This is a conversation about longevity, obedience, and the power of holding history with care.

Support the show

Thanks for tuning in to The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson
Where real conversations meet real ministry.

🎙️ Enjoying the podcast? Support the show ⬇️
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2456465/supporters/new

🎙️ The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson is powered by MinistryForward Media Group, helping churches and leaders grow through media, strategy, and leadership tools.

📲 Stay Connected:
Follow us on Instagram & Facebook: @ministryfwd / @drjwmapson
Visit our website: www.ministryfwd.com
(coming soon)
Watch episodes on YouTube: Search “The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson”

Want to collaborate or sponsor an episode?
Reach out at: info@ministryfwd.com

This episode is proudly sponsored by Terry Funeral Home Inc.
For over 85 years, Terry Funeral Home has walked with families through life’s most sacred moments, offering care, dignity, and excellence when it matters most. Learn more at terryfuneralhome.com.

This episode is also supported by our Silver Partner, Palmer Theological Seminary.
Whole Gospel. Whole World. Whole Persons. Palmer equips leaders for transformative, justice-centered ministry through theological depth and holistic formation. Learn more at palmerseminary.edu.

A season’s worth of hard-won wisdom deserves more than a closing credits moment, so we pressed pause and gathered the conversations that shaped us most. This Season One Rewind revisits the clips you returned to, shared, and carried into your ministry contexts—moments about letting go with grace, the realities of clergy life, the tension between cultural relevance and church identity, the courage to answer a call before you feel ready, and the weight of prophetic preaching when support is scarce. This episode is part reflection, part field guide, and focused on what strengthens real churches and real leaders.

We revisit Bishop Walter S. Thomas Sr., who reminds us that loving the church more than the position is the foundation of healthy transition. We pair that with Rev. Dr. DeForest “Buster” Soaries’s challenge to rethink pastoral finance, honor bi-vocational realities, and provide dignified support for the shepherds who serve our congregations. Rev. Dr. Alyn E. Waller reframes gospel music as an on-ramp to discipleship rather than a substitute for Sunday formation, pushing us to imagine evangelism for a generation drawn by sound but searching for substance.

With Rev. Dr. Danielle L. Brown, we sit in the tension of calling before readiness, naming the quiet scripts that have funneled women into support roles—and celebrating the growing, Spirit-led movement of women stepping confidently into senior leadership. Rev. Dr. Kevin R. Johnson brings us into the loneliness and necessity of prophetic conviction, reminding us that standing alone often precedes standing together.

Threaded through it all is Bishop Keith W. Reed’s charge to “gather wheat from every field, and make your own bread”—a reminder to learn widely without losing yourself, lead boldly without imitation, and let the voices that shaped you strengthen your own.

We close with gratitude for every guest who shared their journey and every listener who watched, commented, prayed, and carried these conversations beyond the studio. A Season One digital E-Book is on the way—gathering themes like leadership pressure, legacy and succession, calling, originality, worship and culture, and prophetic responsibility into a resource for pastors and leaders everywhere.

Season Two begins January 8 with new voices and the same commitment to clarity, courage, and ministry that matters. Share this rewind with someone who needs it, subscribe, and help us continue the conversa

Support the show

Thanks for tuning in to The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson
Where real conversations meet real ministry.

🎙️ Enjoying the podcast? Support the show ⬇️
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2456465/supporters/new

🎙️ The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson is powered by MinistryForward Media Group, helping churches and leaders grow through media, strategy, and leadership tools.

📲 Stay Connected:
Follow us on Instagram & Facebook: @ministryfwd / @drjwmapson
Visit our website: www.ministryfwd.com
(coming soon)
Watch episodes on YouTube: Search “The Ministry Exchange with Dr. Mapson”

Want to collaborate or sponsor an episode?
Reach out at: info@ministryfwd.com

This episode is proudly sponsored by Terry Funeral Home Inc.
For over 85 years, Terry Funeral Home has walked with families through life’s most sacred moments, offering care, dignity, and excellence when it matters most. Learn more at terryfuneralhome.com.

This episode is also supported by our Silver Partner, Palmer Theological Seminary.
Whole Gospel. Whole World. Whole Persons. Palmer equips leaders for transformative, justice-centered ministry through theological depth and holistic formation. Learn more at palmerseminary.edu.