In this rare and candid conversation, Dr Nish Manek speaks with Jim Mackey, CEO of NHS England, about leadership at the very top of the NHS.

Jim reflects on his journey from a working-class upbringing to leading one of the largest healthcare systems in the world, and speaks openly about the reality behind senior leadership - the burden of responsibility, the privilege of making a difference, and the self-doubt that even the most senior leaders experience.

This is an honest and thoughtful conversation about leadership, imposter syndrome, career journeys that don’t go to plan, and what it really feels like to lead during one of the most challenging periods in NHS history.

Timestamps:

• 00:03:00 – Childhood, early influences & competitive swimming
• 00:07:00 – Career journey from accountancy to NHS CEO
• 00:12:00 – Experiencing imposter syndrome in senior roles
• 00:16:00 – Managing responsibility, stress & family life
• 00:29:00 – Navigating elite spaces & staying true to yourself
• 00:36:00 – Introversion, coaching, and personal energy management
• 00:39:00 – Taking the helm at NHS England during major challenges
• 00:49:00 – Shifting care to the community and the future of healthcare

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From sleeping rough at 15 to becoming one of the UK’s youngest female Chief Fire Officers, Sabrina Cohen-Hatton’s story is extraordinary- but this episode goes far beyond inspiration.

This is a masterclass in high-stakes leadership, cognitive bias, psychological safety, and refusing to let your childhood define your ceiling.

We explore what it really means to lead when decisions carry life-or-death consequences - and why the most powerful leadership lessons often come from outside healthcare.

If you care about resilience, systems thinking, and building braver organisations, this conversation is unmissable.

⏱ What we cover

04:00 – Growing up, early trauma, and becoming homeless at 15

09:00 – Survival mode: what rough sleeping really does to your mindset

14:00 – “Homelessness is an experience, not your identity”

20:00 – Joining the fire service and choosing a different future

27:00 – Decision-making under extreme pressure

33:00 – Cognitive bias in high-stakes environments

41:00 – Psychological safety: why it’s built in relationships, not policy

49:00 – Failure, imposter syndrome, and redesigning systems instead of blaming people

🌍 Connect with Sabrina Cohen-Hatton on social media to follow her work and leadership journey.

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In this episode of Next Gen Cast, Dr Nish Manek speaks with Paul Corrigan, one of the most influential figures in modern UK health policy.

From advising Tony Blair inside No.10 to shaping the NHS 10-Year Plan today, Paul brings rare institutional memory and sharp insight into leadership, reform, and why meaningful change in healthcare is so hard to deliver.

Together, we explore what leaders get wrong, why policy alone never works, how clinicians can step into system leadership, and why neighbourhoods, patient agency, and proactive care are central to the NHS’s future.

A candid, wide-ranging conversation for clinicians who want to understand - and shape - what comes next.

✨ Episode Show Notes

00:00 – From academia to No.10

05:00 – Inside Downing Street

08:30 – Do leaders understand the NHS?

12:00 – Clinicians as leaders

17:00 – Risk and standing still

22:30 – What makes a good Secretary of State

27:30 – Returning to DHSC at 75

32:30 – Why reform keeps failing

36:30 – Technology and patient agency

40:30 – “No money” myth

45:30 – Neighbourhood healthcare explained

52:00 – Advice to early-career clinicians

✨ Links/resources:

• Paul's book- Shakespeare on Management

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