In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Jeannette Stawski, founder of Leading Valiantly and author of The Outdoor Leader, Resilience, Integrity and Adventure. Jeannette brings a rich perspective shaped by guiding, teaching, wilderness medicine, university outdoor programmes, executive coaching, association leadership, and fifteen years as Executive Director of the Association of Outdoor Recreation and Education.

Together, Rob and Jeannette explore what it really means to be an outdoor leader, moving beyond technical competence alone to look at judgement, communication, resilience, integrity, vulnerability and service. The conversation looks closely at failure as a necessary part of learning, the difference between purposeful challenge and unnecessary hardship, and why the outdoors gives such immediate feedback on how we lead, listen and work with others.

Jeannette also reflects on professionalisation within the outdoor sector, the need for fair pay and stronger recognition of outdoor work, and the role that associations and communities of practice can play in shaping a more confident, connected and purposeful field.

This is a thoughtful and energising conversation for outdoor educators, school leaders, programme directors, instructors and anyone interested in how outdoor experiences can help people become more capable, reflective and courageous leaders.

Find out more about Jeannette’s work at Leading Valiantly:
https://www.leadingvaliantly.com/

What if safety was not just about preventing things from going wrong, but learning more deeply from why things usually go right?

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Steve Smith, founder of Experiential Consulting and author of Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education. Together, they explore how outdoor educators, schools and programme leaders can think more clearly about risk, safety, judgement and purposeful challenge.

Steve shares how his experiences in outdoor risk management shaped his thinking around beneficial risk, organisational culture and learning in dynamic environments.

The conversation moves through risk literacy, the limits of being “paper safe”, the difference between work as imagined and work as done, and the importance of learning from near misses, workarounds and everyday success.

This episode is full of thoughtful, practical insight for outdoor educators, school leaders and anyone interested in building a more honest, human and learning-centred approach to safety and risk.

Find out more about Steve and Experiential Consulting:
https://outdoorrisk.com

Steve’s book, Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education, is available here: https://a.co/d/05226cTB

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob sits down with Calum Wright, primary teacher, outdoor learning specialist, and founder of Fresh Air Teacher, for a thoughtful conversation about student agency, inclusion, and knowing learners well.

At the heart of the episode is a key question, when does challenge help a student grow, and when does pushing beyond a comfort zone become unhelpful? Rob and Callum explore how good outdoor practice depends on relationships, trust, and careful observation rather than blanket assumptions.

They discuss:

• why student agency matters in outdoor learning
• how to better understand when a learner needs encouragement, adaptation, or space
• the impact of outdoor learning for students with neurodiverse needs
• why inclusion is never automatic, but built through listening and knowing each child well

A valuable episode for educators interested in learner-centred, inclusive outdoor practice.