Chris Kusaba (formerly at Mytra) joins the show to talk about how smaller talent teams can compete in markets where brand recognition is uneven and the demand for AI and robotics talent is rising fast. Chris brings experience from Tesla and now leads recruiting at a high growth robotics and AI company. He shares how to win attention from top candidates, how to widen the funnel when you operate in a niche space, and how to build a team that can scale even when you cannot match big tech compensation.

Key Takeaways

Clear and focused messaging is the only way to stand out in saturated markets where candidates are overwhelmed with inbound from AI and robotics companies. Chris explains how he repurposes commercial decks to help candidates understand the mission and the industry impact.

Referrals become a force multiplier when the market is narrow. Chris outlines how a structured, hands on referral program helps widen the pool and bring in talent that may never have applied on their own.

Hiring managers need a mindset shift when talent pools are thin. Looking for potential rather than that perfect unicorn opens the path to stronger long term teams.

When competing with big tech, the edge comes from scope, visibility, and impact. Chris explains why earlier career candidates choose startups for the ownership they gain and the chance to work on entire products rather than tiny slices.

Strong documentation and transparent communication are essential in preventing single points of failure. This becomes vital in technical companies where knowledge loss can slow delivery for months.

Timestamped Highlights

01:21 Chris explains how the company built its robotics and software stack from the ground up and how that focus shapes their approach to talent.

02:32 Why inbound alone is never enough for niche technical roles and how intentional referral programs change the equation.

04:55 How to differentiate your outreach when every candidate in AI and robotics is flooded with messages.

07:45 The reality of the purple squirrel problem and how to balance ideal skills with real world potential.

11:03 What actually works when going head to head with big tech for the same candidates and why scope matters more than perks.

15:44 How the team reduces risk around knowledge loss and keeps information accessible across the org.

19:10 The art of moving fast without cutting corners and how to build a process that supports both speed and diligence.

A standout moment from Chris

Younger talent wants real ownership. They want access to leadership and the chance to shape something meaningful. That is often the deciding factor when they are choosing between a startup and a larger brand.

Pro Tips

Use your commercial storytelling to recruit. If your customer pitch explains your impact clearly, it can also help top candidates understand why your company exists and why their work would matter.

Widen the funnel with intention. A smaller market means you must look for technical curiosity and growth capacity rather than waiting for that single perfect profile to appear.

Call to Action

If this conversation helps you think differently about talent, team building, or competing for high demand roles, follow the show and share this episode with someone who would benefit from it. New episodes are coming and I would love to have you with us as we continue this new direction.

This episode features Todd Hazen, Head of Technical Recruiting at Gusto, in a candid conversation about what it takes to move from non-tech recruiting into the world of technical hiring. Todd shares how he built credibility, developed deep connections, and learned to thrive in a space that demands both curiosity and humility. For talent professionals navigating transitions, this one is packed with lessons on leadership, learning, and trust.

Key Takeaways
• Curiosity beats confidence when entering a new domain. Ask questions, even when you're in a leadership role.
• Building trust with stakeholders comes from honesty and follow-through, not from having every answer on the spot.
• The "bar" for great talent is always shifting. Calibration is an ongoing process, not a one-time intake.
• Vulnerability accelerates growth. Owning what you don't know helps open doors to learning and partnership.
• Growth and comfort never coexist. Real development happens when you lean into discomfort.

Timestamped Highlights
00:43 Todd explains how Gusto supports small businesses and why that mission matters.
03:36 How he navigated the move from non-technical to technical recruiting and what he learned from his team.
06:16 Finding the bar for technical talent and how calibration evolves with each hiring manager.
08:46 Why humility and curiosity are the fastest paths to growth.
12:43 How to handle tough stakeholder conversations when you don't have all the answers.
15:09 Taking career risks, betting on yourself, and embracing discomfort.
17:45 Defining the North Star and learning to master the craft before chasing the next title.

One to Remember
"It's okay to be humbled and vulnerable. You don't have to know everything, but you do have to keep learning."

Pro Tips
• Approach every intake meeting like a learning opportunity.
• Build trust by following up fast—deliver before people have to ask.
• Use data to frame conversations with hiring managers, not to replace judgment.

Call to Action
If you found Todd's perspective valuable, share this episode with a fellow recruiter who's looking to grow into new spaces. Follow The Talent Tango for more conversations that help talent leaders level up.

Kit Krugman, SVP of People and Culture at Foursquare, joins to unpack what it really means to be a systems thinker in people leadership. She explains how to move beyond process for process's sake, design people systems that actually work together, and create the kind of vibrancy that drives both performance and connection. This is a conversation about how to think, not just how to operate—ideal for anyone building or leading modern people functions.

Key Takeaways
• Systems thinking helps people leaders see the entire ecosystem, not just isolated policies or tools.
• Moving from process-driven to principle-driven decisions builds trust and consistency without bureaucracy.
• Change management requires deciding between incremental evolution and disruptive redesign—both have a place.
• Performance cultures thrive when feedback is continuous, candid, and clearly tied to outcomes.
• Measuring "vibrancy" and connection creates a more meaningful signal than traditional engagement metrics.

Timestamped Highlights
[01:52] What systems thinking really means for people and culture leaders
[04:32] Why principles should outweigh policies when designing fair organizations
[08:39] How to balance incremental versus disruptive change
[13:01] The "post-PIP world" and diagnosing root causes in performance systems
[17:12] Reframing engagement as vibrancy—and how words shape culture
[25:34] Why people leaders must show strategic value instead of waiting for recognition

Memorable Moment
"I'm tired of the narrative that HR needs to be recognized as strategic. It's on us to show it—to build the evidence that we're driving massive value." — Kit Krugman

Pro Tip
If everything feels like it needs a new process, pause and map the system. The issue might not be the process—it might be the underlying philosophy or misaligned signals across your tools, policies, and people.

Call to Action
If this conversation challenged how you think about people systems, share it with a fellow leader and follow The Talent Tango on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Every episode explores how people, impact, and technology come together to shape better workplaces.