‍Michael Carychao: Welcome, Michael Coorlim. Can you tell us about your name?

Michael Coorlim: Okay. Michael may be a name that you are familiar with: "Who is God?"  Coorlim is from my grandfather, from the Greek, columbinus. When his family came over they shortened it to Coorlim.  

What are you drinking, by the way?

Michael Carychao: Egyptian Licorice Mint Tea, which is soothing for my throat.  

When you describe yourself on your website, you describe yourself as, "an author who makes games aspiring to be a game developer who writes books."  

Michael Coorlim: Basically I've been doing both things for most of my life. Earlier with the writing, but since I was 12, I've also been making games. When I was young, I would pick up microcomputers at garage sales. I think my first was either a TSR- 80 or an Atari 400, I'm not sure which, but it came with BASIC. I would get those books from the library, you know, 101 Basic Programs.

Michael Carychao: I had that same book.

Michael Coorlim: For the listeners who may not be aware, they're basically line after line of code that you would type in. You'd come up with little games. I would challenge myself by seeing what kind of modifications I could make, what twists I could do to try to customize them a little bit, because I loved games. I had my first hand-me-down Atari 2600 from my uncle when I was a really young kid. Video games were always fascinating to me.

It was much the same with writing. When I was real young, I would make stick man comics in notebooks, and then give them to my family members as gifts.

But really when it comes down to it, I see myself as a storyteller and both books and games are just different formats through which story can be told—in a very different format, but it's all storytelling when you come down to it.

Michael Carychao: So when you got that first Atari do you remember the cartridges that came with it? What did you get? What games were you playing?

Michael Coorlim: One of my favorites was Combat, a simple two player tank game.

Michael Carychao: Yeah, with all the different variations.

Michael Coorlim: All the different variations. That was one of the interesting things about the 2600 was that the cartridges would often have multiple modes of the same game. There were switches on the console that you could use to switch between them.

I was a big fan of Berserk.

Michael Carychao: What was its tagline? There was something they kept on saying like, "intruder alert?"

Michael Coorlim: "Intruder alert, intruder alert." Well, that was more the arcade.

Michael Carychao: The stand-up arcade game.

Michael Coorlim: The Atari version didn't have the innards to make a noise. But yeah, "The intruder has escaped. The human has escaped." And if you ran away without killing them, they would start calling you a chicken instead. So they would say, "The chicken has escaped." It was one of the first games with a digitized voice chip.

I was also a big fan of Pitfall. Very, very good Activision game from David Crane.

Michael Carychao: Which way would you go, right or left?

Michael Coorlim: You're kind of supposed to go right, but I would go left.  It was very interesting to me because you could go  either way. That was very interesting to me as a

Michael Carychao: [00:00:08] Welcome to the fourth episode of The World According To, a podcast that explores the unique worldviews of amazing people. In this episode I had the great pleasure of visiting the world according to Donna Grosvenor. We talk about her adventures as a photographer for National Geographic in the sixties, about being a yoga teacher with a flexible attitude towards perfection, about living with cancer, about the importance of love, and so much more . . . I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Welcome to the world according to Donna Grosvenor.

Welcome, Donna Grosvenor.

Donna Grosvenor: [00:00:58] Well, it's always been a delight because I've been speaking with you for a lot of years.

Michael Carychao: [00:01:02] I feel like our conversation has continued even in our absences.

Donna Grosvenor: [00:01:07] Oh, it has, because we have all these connections through my daughter and through your sister, who is my other daughter and lives here in Santa Fe with your beautiful mother. I have all those connections to you and your lovely wife and your boys.

Michael Carychao: [00:01:23] Can you tell us about your name?

Donna Grosvenor: [00:01:28] Well, I've never paid very much attention to heritage. I have to tell you that. But, I do know that William de Grosvenor was with William the Conqueror in 1066. And I guess the name means Fat Hunter. So I guess he was in charge of the hunting for William the Conqueror. I also have Scottish roots. My maiden name, Kerkam, was three generations in the District of Columbia, in Washington, DC.

Michael Carychao: [00:02:01] So you've been a photographer pretty much all your life. Is that right?

Donna Grosvenor: [00:02:06] I wasn't even an amateur photographer, Michael. I went to work for the Geographic after college and met my husband, Gilbert, and we started doing assignments for National Geographic together. And the Geographic photo department decided it would be a great thing if I learned how to take pictures, because I could photograph women that Gilbert couldn't even talk to. You know, this was the 1960s and there were lots of places where women were very sheltered from any publicity or advertising or magazine people. And so I was taken under the wing of the photographers at Geographic, and they taught me how to shoot. I really loved it and I got into it deeply. The head of photography, Bob Gilka, decided he would send me to the Missouri Photo Workshop, which is still going on. It's, I think, in its 70th year.

They would send top photographers from all over the country to a small town in Missouri, a different town every year and the 39 or so participants would be chosen to go to this workshop as students to learn how to do "truth in photography" shooting. There were no posing of pictures. There was no setup allowed. Of course, it's all pre-digital. Photography was very different then. They chose a town called Marshall, Missouri. I was sent there and I had to pick a story to do that was sort of representative of the town. You had to get permission from the person you wanted to shoot the story about, and then you had to get approval from all these top photographers who had come from Life and Look magazine and all these places all around the country to be the faculty at this workshop. It was a week long. I started subscribing to the Marshall, Missouri newspaper about two months before the workshop. I was, of course,...

Names - 1:11

Michael Carychao: Can you tell us about your name?

Alison OK Frost: My maiden name, or my given name, is Alison Offill-Klein. I found when I was trying to kind of make art—you know, I tried shortening it to Alison Klein. You can't google Allison Klein, there's just too many. And I was having trouble with curators not being able to pronounce or spell my name. So when I got married to someone whose last name was Frost, which is very easy to pronounce, and spell, I took his name. But I wanted to keep some of where I come from. So I shortened Offill-Klein to OK.

MC: How does it feel to try on the effect of different last names?

AOK: That's a really interesting question. I feel like all of my last names have had cultural baggage for them. So if you see that I have a hyphenated last name automatically you're going to assume I'm from a coast, my parents are college educated. There's also something I didn't really think about until I moved to the Bay Area is that Klein is a very Jewish last name. Which I had never thought of one way or another when I was living in LA, or New York, just because there are large Jewish populations in it, it isn't a big deal. And then when I moved to the Bay Area, it seemed like, all of a sudden, there was a little bit of othering that happened. It felt a little weird in a way to change my name to more of a waspy last name. I sort of asked myself the questions, "Am I white-washing myself here?" And, "What, what does that mean?"

MC:   And yet, you've got OK in the middle, which is the opposite of having a normal name, it's actually an invitation, it seems to me, for people to challenge your—you know, you're obviously excellent—and so to challenge your moniker of OK.

AOK: I think it's really funny too, just because I have a lot of friends who are old punk rockers and they've got these last names like Dismal or Landmine, you know? I thought it was so funny to just have a completely value-neutral moniker.

All right, I am gonna put him up.

MC: So that was Rocco.

AOK: That was Rocco. Yeah.

MC: Rocco seems kind of on the young side.

AOK: He is. He actually showed up at my house last December. He was a very young, very skinny Pitbull, you know, mangy, covered in fleas, under-fed.

MC:  And you took him in.

AOK:  I didn't mean to. I was like, "Okay, you can stay in my backyard for one night." But I didn't want to take him to the shelter. Because there's so many pits there. And I didn't want him to be put down. Yeah, so he's been with me for about a year. I think he might be about two years old, something like that. And he's turned into such a joy. I mean, he's a lot. Especially with lockdown and quarantine and staying in my house. It's really nice to have this big idiot dog who loves...