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We've Got To Talk

We've Got To Talk

Written by: Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
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Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it! We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go about your day.Copyright 2026 Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway Political Science Politics & Government Social Sciences
Episodes
  • “Bashing Trump” vs “Sanewashing Trump”: An Interview with Issac Saul of Tangle News

    “Bashing Trump” vs “Sanewashing Trump”: An Interview with Issac Saul of Tangle News
    May 27 2026
    What happens when you try to tell the truth in a world that only wants team loyalty? In this episode, we talk with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, the independent, non-partisan politics newsletter that summarises the best arguments from the left and the right. Isaac wrote a “plea for help” email after conservatives accused Tangle of bashing Trump while liberals accused it of sanewashing Trump, often in response to the exact same newsletter.We take a look at why the current political division feels different now, and how the media ecosystem rewards outrage, certainty, and tribalism. Isaac breaks down why “picking a side” is often the most profitable model in modern media, and what it costs the rest of us, our relationships, our mental health, and our ability to talk to family and friends who disagree with us.We also get into something surprisingly powerful: language. Isaac explains how tiny word choices can trigger instant assumptions of political bias, and how Tangle created its own editorial standards to keep readers from rage-quitting before they even reach the arguments.Finally, we talk about whether we’ve hit “peak indecency,” and what might actually bring a decency comeback in politics and culture. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction00:21 Meet Isaac Saul (Tangle News Founder)02:15 Why Political Polarisation Feels Worse Right Now05:21 Media Incentives: Why Outrage and “Pick a Side” Content Wins07:09 Toxic Comment Sections and Cancel Culture12:24 Did COVID Accelerate Division? Doomscrolling, Isolation, and Social Media19:16 Neutral Language in Journalism: Tangle’s Editorial Standards Explained22:39 Why Polls Skew Left: Conservatives Less Likely to Answer Surveys24:02 NPR / Public Radio Surge26:54 Writing With Integrity: Staying Honest Without Feeding Tribalism30:57 AI, Misinformation, and the Hope for a “Decency Comeback” in Politics36:02 Would You RatherRESOURCES MENTIONED:This American Life Tangle Episode: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/845/a-small-thing?ref=readtangle.comIssac Saul with David French:https://youtu.be/fxAKXuvMXcw?si=FpOYfAVa2IdIMkaAIssac Saul TED Talk:https://youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=-wUgGLuSZ1LK5ygI GOOD FOR THE SOUL:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45031831-one-long-river-of-songOur Website:https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS:On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkOn Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
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    43 mins
  • How Postpartum Medicaid Went From 60 Days to a Year in Wisconsin

    How Postpartum Medicaid Went From 60 Days to a Year in Wisconsin
    May 20 2026
    Fourteen Wisconsinites from opposite sides of the abortion debate sat down together for a three-day Builders Movement Citizen Solutions session on abortion and family wellbeing. This wasn’t a panel or a debate for show. It was a practical, structured process with trained facilitators and a clear framework, designed to help people hear each other properly and figure out what could actually change in real life, not just online.What they landed on was surprisingly concrete: extending Medicaid postpartum coverage in Wisconsin from 60 days to a full year. In March 2026, the policy passed almost unanimously, and Governor Tony Evers signed it into law. This means more moms getting treatment for postpartum depression, more women getting care when something goes wrong after birth, and more families supported during the months when everything is raw, expensive, and exhausting.But the story behind that win is not tidy. One participant, Ali (a progressive Democrat and elected official in Madison), admitted she walked in suspicious, worried it would be conflict-as-entertainment. Kai, an independent who describes herself as a “world citizen,” trusted the referral and believed the process could work. Kateri, a Catholic who prefers “consistent life ethic,” feared being flattened into a stereotype, and she didn’t sugar-coat how hard it was to feel understood in a room full of strangers on a topic this loaded.This is the part we don’t talk about enough: real dialogue is uncomfortable, and “common ground” doesn’t magically appear because everyone’s being polite. It takes time, relationship, and a willingness to stay in the room when it gets tense. Still, this group proved something important, that even when people can’t agree on everything, they can sometimes agree on what families need, and push through the politics to get a real policy solution across the line.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction00:31 Builders Movement Intro01:30 Meet The Participants03:52 Ali Joins With Skepticism05:47 Kai On Trust And Dialogue07:21 Three Day Solution Session11:12 Trauma And Finding Empathy13:58 Relationship Building Debate24:37 Men In The Room25:59 Choosing Medicaid Extension27:22 Wraparound Support Systems30:12 Partisan Pushback and Perseverance33:25 Backlash and Unfinished Work36:08 Good for the Soul PicksRESOURCES MENTIONED:Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/Citizen Solutions Wisconsin: http://citizensolutions.us/citizensolutions/wiGOOD FOR THE SOUL:Ali’s: My Friends by Friedrich Bachmanhttps://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/217163697-my-friendsKateri’s - East of Eden by John Steinbeck https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4406.East_of_EdenKai’s - Hammersmith Odeon Concerts https://www.concertarchives.org/venues/hammersmith-odeonOur Website:https://www.wevegottotalk.com/LINKS:On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkOn Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
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    46 mins
  • Builders, Not Dividers: Voting for Character Over Party

    Builders, Not Dividers: Voting for Character Over Party
    May 13 2026
    In a world that rewards outrage, it can feel safer to avoid politics, religion, and money altogether. But the silence doesn’t fix anything, it just pushes the tension into Facebook fights, family dinners, and comment sections where people forget there’s a real human on the other side. In this conversation with Stacy Blakeley, Executive Director of the Builders Movement, we talk about how “us vs them” thinking became normal, and why it’s keeping the thoughtful majority stuck on the sidelines.The Builders Movement is a citizen-first movement built to push back on the outrage industrial complex and rebuild civil dialogue in real life. Stacy explains why Builders isn’t a think tank with an agenda, it’s a movement that starts by listening, polling, and meeting people where they are, then creating guardrails so conversations don’t spiral into “everything is broken.” The goal is practical: get citizens back in the driver’s seat, and build solutions from common ground without pretending differences don’t exist.We also dig into Citizen Solutions, the Builders program that brings a carefully selected group of everyday people across race, income, and politics into a two-day, facilitated process to practice good conflict and find actionable policy solutions. Stacy shares what this looked like in Tennessee (including the documentary Tennessee 11) and in Wisconsin, where citizens helped drive legislation to extend postpartum Medicaid coverage, proof that the system can move when regular people stay in it long enough.Finally, we talk about the Builders mindset and the four C’s: curiosity, creativity, courage, and compassion. We unpack why people are often kinder in person than online, how algorithms fuel tribalism, and why the real problem isn’t “the other side,” it’s an incentive system that rewards extremes. If you’re tired of the circus and wondering what you can actually do, this is your reminder: small groups change the world, and it starts with staying human.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Friends Across Politics: Liberal vs Conservative civil discourse01:08 What Is the Builders Movement? Ending “us vs them” political division02:53 Fighting Outrage Culture: social media algorithms and the outrage economy04:20 Citizen Solutions Explained: bipartisan dialogue that leads to real policy05:26 Tennessee 11: guns, polarization, and finding common ground08:11 Wisconsin Win: postpartum Medicaid extension (citizen-led legislation)10:50 Texas Healthcare Solutions: affordability, access, and practical reform13:29 Local vs National Impact: civic engagement that scales from communities19:38 Builders Mindset: the Four C’s (curiosity, creativity, courage, compassion)23:27 Rewarding Builders in Politics: voting for character over party29:37 Builders Index + C4: rating candidates as Builder vs Divider32:51 Voting Beyond Party: independents, open-minded voters, and reform35:11 Broken Incentives: donors, PACs, lobbying power, and extremism36:01 Citizen Solutions Hope: why everyday citizens can still change the systemRESOURCES MENTIONED:Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/Tennessee 11 Documentary Trailer: https://youtu.be/p-drQKzz2q0?si=ulCjPJeR5xHXtXLlBridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/Builders Texas Primary Campaign- Turn out or rollover: https://youtu.be/va4dmwxtqXE?si=JqNGa5KdokVFV9yhBen Sasse 60 Minutes: https://youtu.be/dDveT8OesWA?si=-gfjZB6j7RHA-kn0Political Integrity Substack: https://politicalintegrity.us/Good for the Soul: Raye “Joy”: https://youtu.be/taHYtEGxLnw?si=NpLgzbEJTMapPfMU and the live performance: https://youtu.be/2scS3s_I050?si=bkp9PLF9Mz6AilmROur Website:https://www.wevegottotalk.com/LINKS:On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkOn Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
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    56 mins
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